Education

That's sort of equivalent to saying, "there's a lot about anatomy that rocket scientists are not educated sufficiently to understand, therefore it has no business whatsoever being taught in high school or college."Don't biology students, or potential future biology students, get to study biology in high school or college? Do they really have to wait until graduate school to learn the foundation of biology? And just because medical doctors don't know it? That's absurd.I have medical doctors as colleagues. I have taught medical students.There is a heck of a lot that medical doctors do NOT know about really basic biology - not just about evolution - but also in fields more immediately related to medicine, such as cellular biology and genetics. I've had classes of medical students who had trouble grasping extremely basic genetics, and classes of bio undergrads who knew the same genetic concepts in their sleep before I brought them up.MDs need to understand little of the biological facts and concepts that many biology researchers could not live without - even though it is often said biology researchers who are providing research and therapy design to the doctors who will use it without fully understanding the underlying mechanisms.This is not necessarily an insult to MDs, because they have other things to cram into their brain, like the massive number of treatment options for each condition they might encounter, and the criteria for selection amongst those options for a given patient.Does an auto mechanic need to have a complete understanding of physics and thermodynamics to keep your car running?

You did no such thing. You asserted that both plumbers and microbiologists use the scientific method, and that both have comparable higher degrees, which is silly.Because someone inadvertently uses the scientific method, that does not make them a scientist.No more than someone who inadvertently unclogs a drain is a plumber.Regarding your claim of higher degrees of education, my plumber didn't graduate high school. One can scarcely call themself a microbiologist without having ten years plus post high school education. How is that the same? Your silly pot philosophy does not counter the practical reality of occupations and their related spheres of knowledge and understanding.

randman - just before the thread veered off-course into Haeckel land, I addressed you on-topic here, and am still awaiting reply.

Huh?!? This was "the point", since it was the entirety of your message: This is essentially an advocation of shutting down biology training altogether. Actually, it was "evos doing science" that revealed that mutation is a non-random process.

My thoughts precisely - I learned to avoid their self-important banter some time ago......and I'm liking you more and more each day, RR.

The criticism made of you: Your response: You couldn't have done a better job of demonstrating his point.

Holmes,I wasn't agreeing with RR's comments regarding this thread; I was agreeing with them regarding your posts throughout the forum. And believe me, I am NOT defending schraf - she has always seemed to me to be more interested in starting an argument than having a constructive discussion.Regarding your posting style, I personally feel it comes with a lot of self-important attitude. Maybe that's not your intent, but it is how I read it; as I've said before to you - that I think you make yourself a self-appointed expert on things, and then proceed to get your facts wrong. Just my view. I think I get frustrated with some of your commentary because we share many experiences and you argue from those experiences differently than I would, yet you do so in a general, absolute sense.I'm sure (absolutely positive) there are others on the forum that dislike aspects of my posting style.You are correct, my comments in this thread are unnecessary, though not meant to be insulting. I personally thought RR's comments were dead-on and I wanted to pat him on the back (I would have POTMed them except for the fact that they were simply commenting on the attitude of others).I don't know, it's only a few days to Festivus, maybe I'm just in a mood to air my grievances...