A young sun - a response

The sun, in order to do what it needed to do for God's living creation on earth must needs have been created with appearance of age it would seem. Scientifically speaking, the sun, when created on day four of Genesis would appear to a scientist if he were observing at that time as having age, would it not? After all, Adam came on the scene with appearance of age and he lived hundreds of years after that before he died.LB, I just finished reading the whole thread, and I certainly do admire your philosophy of how to cope with the Bible and science, especially as I read of those here in town who've tossed their precious saving faith overboard because it appears to them that human science has it all figured out already.Having been a student of the Bible for 58 years, I've become apprised of the fulfilled prophecies and nothing will ever trump these so as to disuade me from total confidence in the Bible. These plus all the personal spiritual experiences and answers to prayer have made me, like you a dyed in the wool Biblicalist. Keep on keeping on, dear brother. Having read this thread has been truly a blessing to me and an encouraging refreshing testimony from someone who makes real good sense. Thanks alot!!

Question: Scientifically speaking what should the sun look like when it was 100 or 1000 years old if emerging on the scene naturally? Would it be able to heat the earth as it does today to do what it needs to do for the earth at exactly the right temperature?

Ned please answer my question. Wouldn't the sun have to show age in order to do what it needs to do for the earth to function?

Eta please answer my question. Wouldn't the sun have to show age in order to do what it needs to do for the earth to function?

quote:

---

I don't understand your question.
What do you mean by 'have to show age'?

​

That makes no sense to me - please elaborate.

---

That if it was created on day four of Genesis 1 as the Bible states, it would have had to be created with the appearance of age. See my post above to that effect which you previously responded to for details.

Ok Ned, if our present sun were, say 7000 years of age since created, wouldn't it have to appear as and old sun as it evidently does? We see what we have. Most interpret what they see as old. I'm saying that what we see today could have been created a few thousand years ago and in that time wouldn't have had much time to change, so it must have appeared a few thousand years ago pretty much as it does today. Therefore if it was created a few thousand years ago, it would have to have been created with the appearance of age in order to do then what it does for the earth today.Lizzar Breath, do you understand what I'm trying to say?

quote:

---

No, Buz I don't think it "has to show" age. Eta can answer better but I think that the sun could produce heat just fine without haveing just the right amounts of some elements to indicate it had been burning a long time, etc.
It could also produce a lot of heat for long enough (a few 1,000's of years) without fusion taking place. Eta could tell us if there are any other things.

---

But if God created the sun without appearance of age, a brand new son one year old would have to look much different than ours if ours appears to be billions of years old. So if he indeed created it as the Bible implies about 6000 years ago, it would have to have been created with appearance of what scientists would determine to be age. According to Genesis 1 the earth was dark when day one commenced. Then the Holy Spirit showed up on the scene and began to work, likely producing a light to get things going.

quote:

---

And Buz, did the trees and grasses from Day 3 just "give the appearance" of photosynthesizing and growing before the sun came along to give them enough light to really do so? Haven't you said that the pre-sun "days" are possibly many of our years long?

---

That's right, but I also suggested that the Holy Spirit which was sent from God to actually implement the creation produced the light before the sun was made. Evidently there was a purpose for an extraordinary light to do what needed to be done before creatures were made, one being the creation of the plant kingdom, etc. There had to be a purpose for the sun to be younger than the earth and to be absent before some time in day four. We also know that there were evenings and mornings before the sun and moon, but how long they were or how they were effected, nobody knows. God knows.

quote:

---

But since the sun can work fine WITHOUT the appearance of age why would He make it look like it is old? He certainly had to do somethings so it supplied light at the right time but He did NOT have to make it look precisely right to look old. Why did He?
But Buz, why are you even bothering to ask? I thought you were on "our" side on this. You think that the earth and sun are old, much older than 6,000 years.

---

Because to us creationists, he made what we see and what we see is imo, Biblically speaking not old but scientifically appears to be old. Nobody knows the age of the earth by the Bible, but according to the Bible it appears the sun and moon are about as old as creatures or 6000 years old. I've never said that I believe the sun is old, but that the earth could be old as nobody knows how long days one, two, three and even four were and I include day four as we aren't told how long the day was before the sun and moon were finished. Does this help any, Ned, to explain what I'm trying to get across?

Jazzlover, I often don't read these real long posts, but yours was worth the time and quite informative. Thanks.

quote:

---

Sorry to but in when the discussion was going so smoothly, but a 7000 year old sun would not be giving out any light. The sun is not transparent, and light does not simply pour out from its interior. The photons get emitted, absorbed, re-emitted, etc billions of times before they manage the random-walk to the surface and shoot off into space. According to Frank Shu (Professaor of Astronomy at University of California, in "The Physical Universe') this random walk would take about 30,000 years.
So a 7000 year old sun would not be shining yet!

​

The only option that works is to assume that God deliberately made the universe to appear old, and he created photons in transit from the centre of the sun just as he created light in transit from the distant galaxies. This is the "Omphalos" theory, and you can take it or leave it, but there is no way to prove it right or wrong. Any evidence that the sun and universe are not old would then be a slip-up on God's part.

---

Thanks Mike. You make my point that scientifically, the sun would have to be doing within it what would make it appear to be old. No mistake on God's part though in this, imo, as like Adam and the animals he likely created it with appearance of age to make it do for the earth at creation what it is doing right now, sustaining life.

quote:

---

Since others would agree that the God you worship is not a deciever then only the first choice is viable.

---

But the god of the Bible who I worship says it's young so I have to go with him creating it as he did many other things, with the appearace of age. Likely, all of the rocks which he created in the beginning whenever he created the earth had appearance of age, wouldn't they, for example? This's how creation works. Most Biblical creationists don't see God evolving things slowly into existence. It was as easy for him to make a planet as it was for Jesus to raise Lazarus from the dead or restore the ear to a soldier.

quote:

---

No, Buz, what Mike tells you is there would be some things that would have to be set up to get the sun to be "working" right but there are a bunch more that aren't 'necessary'.

---

For example?

What about the helium? How does that nullify anything I've said?

quote:

---

I don't think it nullifies anything that you have said. You have agreed that the earth (and I presume) sun are billions of years old haven't you.

---

Ned, please read my post #93. I've never ever said I believe the sun to be old.