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Author Topic:   New Hubble pictures, YEC explanations just don't make sense.
Darwin Storm
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 129 (91494)
03-10-2004 12:05 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Yaro
03-09-2004 11:16 PM


For every problem posed to a YEC by evolution, there are 10 in cosmology and astrophysics. However, I have rarely seen much in the way of creationist commentry in regards to these topics. I have seen several creationists I have debated with simply lump it under the catch all of "evolution", even though neither of these scientific field has much to do with biological evolution. Disclaimer Note: My anecdotal evidence is wholly limited to my limited experience and hardly applies to all creationists, nor constitues a large sample of datum from which to extract further generalizations.
[This message has been edited by Darwin Storm, 03-10-2004]

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Replies to this message:
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Darwin Storm
Inactive Member


Message 88 of 129 (91990)
03-12-2004 1:23 AM
Reply to: Message 83 by Reef
03-12-2004 1:09 AM


Re: Columbus knew the earth was round
Reef, if you have any intersest in understanding how finite numbers can be generated by a infinite series, just take calculus. In fact, the concept of limits, derivitives, integerals, etc, all depend on the the concept. For example an integral can be used to calculate the area under a given curve. Mathematically, you are taking infinite slices of the area, measuring them, and adding them up. Fortunately, this can be simplified using integrals, which generate equations that, when limits of integration are applied, give a value for this addition of infinite slices.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by Reef, posted 03-12-2004 1:09 AM Reef has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 89 by Reef, posted 03-12-2004 1:27 AM Darwin Storm has replied

Darwin Storm
Inactive Member


Message 91 of 129 (91997)
03-12-2004 1:45 AM
Reply to: Message 82 by BobAliceEve
03-12-2004 1:05 AM


Re: Columbus knew the earth was round
and so did the Greeks. So did Abraham. He also knew that there were billions of stars (see Genesis 15:5 and 32:12 regarding more stars than sand). I find that interesting since only in the last dozen years have we come to know that there are "billions and billions" of stars.
I understand that in modern cities, people can hardly see any stars other than the brightest due to light contamination, but any trip to a dark place away fromt the bright lights will easily reveal countless stars. The advent of telescopes has only increased the stars we can see. I have no clue where you get the idea its only been about 10 years since this "discovery". And I think you would find the description of the number of stars as nearly countless in almost every culture that looked at anything other than their shoes.
The Hubble picture, while further evidence of many stars, is not evidence of an ancient universe any more than the picture of Yaro proves that she is a certain age. The Hubble picture proves, at best, that the universe is big. It could have been created big and designed to get bigger. And it proves nothing about the age of the earth, either.
Light travels at a constant speed c. It doesn't travel instaniously. If an object is 13 billion light years away from eath, any light generated by that object will take 13 billion years traveling at c to earth. Any object viewed at such a distance indicates its age. However, any light generated by that object afterwards will not reach earth until some future date, since its still traveling here. Its kinda like looking at a home video tape of that object 13 billion years after the fact.
The advantage of knowing the speed of light and distances is that it clearly indicates the time it takes for light to reach earth.
And now, we are at the crux of the matter - the methods. A daily, ongoing, bi-directional spiritual relationship with God has its own methods. The results are clear and certain. If one is attempting to tell me that an imperfect instrument read by imperfect eyes and processed by an imperfect brain is superior to an intelligence-to-intelligence communication with God... well, one might as well try to convince me that salt has no flavor. After all, its flavor can not be measured or described. And I think to myself "Non-YEC explanations just don't make sense."
Your personal feelings are fine, but they don't constitute scientific data. Additionally, aren't you using that same imperfect set of eyes and brain to read the bible and "communicate" with god? I never understood why people believe just because they don't agree with scientific findings that somehow those findings are suddenly invalidated. Feelings have zero relevence to the scientific persuit or the legitimacy of scientific endevours.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by BobAliceEve, posted 03-12-2004 1:05 AM BobAliceEve has replied

Replies to this message:
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Darwin Storm
Inactive Member


Message 92 of 129 (91998)
03-12-2004 1:52 AM
Reply to: Message 89 by Reef
03-12-2004 1:27 AM


Re: Columbus knew the earth was round
Completely depends on the curve. For example, some function, if finding the area under the curve from say, 1 to infinity, will still generate a finite number. However, most functions will have an infinite are under the curve.
As for zeno's paradox, it is merely another application of calculus, or can be solved, as previously explained in this thread, as a geometric series. Zenos paradox was a pardox to him, not to modren matematics.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by Reef, posted 03-12-2004 1:55 AM Darwin Storm has replied

Darwin Storm
Inactive Member


Message 94 of 129 (92000)
03-12-2004 1:56 AM
Reply to: Message 90 by Reef
03-12-2004 1:29 AM


Reef, energy constantly changes form. If it didn't , we wouldn't be here. You are constantly turning chemical energy into kinetic and thermal energy. If you pick up a book, you are converting that kinetic energy into potential energy in that book. The sun is constantly converting nuclear energy into radiation.
As for properties being different, if they were, much of the struture of the universe would be vastly different. Also, evidence has consitently supported a model of the universe with constant physical laws.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by Reef, posted 03-12-2004 1:29 AM Reef has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by Reef, posted 03-12-2004 2:01 AM Darwin Storm has replied

Darwin Storm
Inactive Member


Message 97 of 129 (92003)
03-12-2004 2:05 AM
Reply to: Message 93 by Reef
03-12-2004 1:55 AM


Re: Columbus knew the earth was round
There is a difference between infintley long, and infinitely big.
For example, the function, f(x)= x is a linear line, and the area under its curve goes to infinity as x goes to infinity. However, some functions, say f(x)= 1/x , if you were to measure the area under the curve from say x =1 to x = infinity, you actually have a finite area. Each slice of dx of the function decreases fast enough that the area under the curve approaches a finite number. Its much akin to crash frogs example of the series 1 + 1/2 + 1/4 + ... =2
The sequential elements are decreasing, and while infinite bits are added up, the total is still finite.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by Reef, posted 03-12-2004 1:55 AM Reef has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 99 by Reef, posted 03-12-2004 2:07 AM Darwin Storm has replied

Darwin Storm
Inactive Member


Message 100 of 129 (92006)
03-12-2004 2:08 AM
Reply to: Message 95 by Reef
03-12-2004 2:01 AM


Realitivity. Essentially, the closer you approach the speed of light, the more your mass increases, and the more energy is required to continue to accelerate. As the mass approaches the speed of light, the energy required to reach that velocity increases infintely.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by Reef, posted 03-12-2004 2:01 AM Reef has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by Reef, posted 03-12-2004 2:13 AM Darwin Storm has replied

Darwin Storm
Inactive Member


Message 102 of 129 (92009)
03-12-2004 2:16 AM
Reply to: Message 99 by Reef
03-12-2004 2:07 AM


Re: Columbus knew the earth was round
http://www.deltalink.com/dodson/downloads/zenomath.pdf
Here is a mathematical solution for zeno's paradox.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by Reef, posted 03-12-2004 2:07 AM Reef has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by Reef, posted 03-12-2004 2:21 AM Darwin Storm has replied

Darwin Storm
Inactive Member


Message 104 of 129 (92013)
03-12-2004 2:27 AM
Reply to: Message 101 by Reef
03-12-2004 2:13 AM


Einstien's equations allow us to calculate the relative mass of an object as a funcion of it velocity.
M(realitive) = M(rest)*(1-(v^2/c^2))^-1/2
ie
@ v =.2 c m(r) is approx 1.02 times m(rest)
@ v =.8 c m(r) " 1.67 "
@ v =.99c " 7.09 "
@ v =.9999c " 70.71 "
@ v = .999999c " 707.1 "
as v approaches c, m (r) approaches infinity.

This message is a reply to:
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Darwin Storm
Inactive Member


Message 105 of 129 (92014)
03-12-2004 2:30 AM
Reply to: Message 103 by Reef
03-12-2004 2:21 AM


Re: Columbus knew the earth was round
Reef, if you can't understand the logic of the problem, and follow the math, that is fine. However, your lack of understanding doesn't mean the solution is incorrect. Try working through the mathematics. Look for some other sites that have solutions, maybe one can explain it more clearly for you.

This message is a reply to:
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