New Hubble pictures, YEC explanations just don't make sense.

Mark,I looked through this convoluted topic for quite a while, and I got an idea, but I'm still a lil unsure of what you mean by the Greenland ice cores. What I think you mean is the layers of types of ice found in Greenland. I'm assuming that it is your belief that each set of layers is created annually. Is that where you were going? Or said?
On the whole faster-than-light-travel issue. I'll let you know all about it after I do it, assuming time travel doesn't take place. Till then, it's kinda' dumb to talk about.Joe[This message has been edited by Navy10E, 03-12-2004]

"If the universe were of infinite duration in the past then in the present, there would be no energy avaliable for work.Since energy is clearly avaliable for work, the universe must be of finite duration in the past - that is, it had a beginning."You say that the universe had a begining. Did matter then also have a begining?

Ouch! It bites! Reel in your claws big fella'! I wasn't asking for the sake of information, I was asking your point of view. Gosh, testy in here arn't we? As for a basic idea on cosmology, I've got a great, fine, well documented public high school education. That should be plenty. Now, the reason I asked before I was so "politely" responded to: Since we've covered the basics and both can agree that both the universe, and the matter it is made of, had a begining, I'd like (if it won't make you too grumpy) to possibly discuss what it was that began them. I would assume that there is where there are some differences. Hopefully we can talk about and discuss those differences like truly rational adults.Your loving friend
Joe[This message has been edited by Navy10E, 03-12-2004]

Dude, by mentioning this, I'm sure I'm opening myself up to the sneers of elitists, but anyway, I'm 19 years old. A chance at more then a high school education would be tough. The public school comment was joke. Total sarcasm. Actually I spent most of that time under the teaching of my half insane, genius, father. Most of you would call it Home Schooling...but with him, it was something different. And no, I'm not a genius, pretty much a normal guy. I have, however read books from the library conserning the big bang. Right now I'm in the Navy, and so, not in college. I'll be picking up a few night classes as soon as a can, but look, enough to defending my intelligence..."Causality is a property within the universe, not beyond it. There's no "before" before time, so how can anything be said to have begun the universe"Well, first of all, I admire your attempt to define the arguement. However, I do not accept your definition of causality. It rules out options without even looking at them. As to the issue of time, quite honestly, we don't know what time was like "before time". I don't know what time was like before my time.Joe

Is it impossible to assume that time began before matter? Or perhaps time has always existed (I doubt it, but I'm not going to make an issue of it). That doesn't really matter. Something we both will agree to however, is that time was around when matter came into being. Whether that means time and matter were parallel in their (I would say creation) begining, or if time preceeded matter really doesn't seem relevent.
What is relevent to me in this discussion (and maybe our resident Cosmologist {did I spell that right?} dude can help us out here) is the source of your "Big Bang". I'd like to cover the basics of it. It is seems to me as a "something out of nothing" approach not dissimular to Creation. Perhaps "a lot out of a little" is a better explaination. I don not wish to define your position, so how 'bout you do it instead? Ok braniacs, peace out.Joe

I've heard about these ice sheets. My source said the layers were due to weather related events, not annual deposites. For example, storm, thaw, snow, storm, long thaw, lil storm..etc. I also, in a unrelated article read of a WWII plane squadren that was burried in 50 ft of ice. Since these layers are only an inch or so in depth, annual deposites doesn't seem to make sense, and as a method of dating, irrelevent.Joe[This message has been edited by Navy10E, 03-12-2004]