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Author Topic:   Big Bang - Big Dud
Fish-in-a-bowler-hat
Inactive Member


Message 269 of 287 (283995)
02-04-2006 7:09 PM


Just some thoughts, Im no expert
Im new here and this is my first post, so good evening all.
Didnt Edwin Hubble discover that one universal feature of galaxies all over the sky were that the light coming to us from them was redder than it should be, and did he then not conclude that this red shift was due to the universe literally flying apart at enormous velocities, tying it in with Alexander Friedman and George Lemaitres models of an expanding universe.
So if we reverse time and pull it all back together would it not be reasonable assumption that it did begin somewhere.
George Gamow said that if the big bang really happend then the background temperature of the universe should be just a few degrees above absolute zero and that this was a relic of a very early stage of the universe, and sure enough in 1965 it was discovered that the background radiation of the universe was around 3.7 degrees above absolute zero, which there is no explanation for.
Aswell as the origin of light elements such as helium etc. they could onhly be forge in a furnace of impressive heat, so its pretty conclusive that the universe had a beginning and bang is a good a name as any to describe it.
I am in total agreement with that, however a question I would like to raise is this,
If out of absolute nothing came a universe that is brilliantly fine tune with the laws of physics and mathematics and all the rest of the fancy scientific wonderousies, then for what purpose,
Is the law of causiality not also a fact?
I mean we dont worry about going home one day to find an elephant in our living room, and had just randomly managed to make itself, and I mean build up itself from absolutley nothing, make its bones, blood, skin, organs, blahblahblah, that just would never ever happen,
You cant just pull a rabbit out a hat from nothing, there is at least the magician and the hat there first.
So why do so many "scientists" (and interestingly enough the word science means knowledge) find it hard to "acknowledge" that if there is a singularity, then maybe it had a cause to be there, and since the law of causialty is factual, then maybe, just maybe, "In the beginning God said; Let there be light..."
Im not down grading anyone here because if I beleive that God created the universe then I have to also accept that all the laws that hold it together he also created, and so I accept things that are purely factual, and with no agenda other than the fact that they are what is the truth.
But even if some say that the big bang came from a vacum of fluctuating energies, then it really just brings it right back to the topic of how did they get there because you cant get something out of absolute nothingness. FACT!
I think that everyone is in the same boat,no one on either side of the fence can disprove or ridicule the other.
Science in my point of view proves God to me in an even more marvellous light,
He made such delicate and beautiful laws, crafted them and made a universe teaming with beauty and life, and he done it with a BANG
The laws are to definite to be random chaos, they are more like a masterpeice of Grand-artistry, and since no one can disprove that Im gonna go to ma bed,
Goodnight all

Replies to this message:
 Message 271 by Modulous, posted 02-04-2006 7:34 PM Fish-in-a-bowler-hat has replied

  
Fish-in-a-bowler-hat
Inactive Member


Message 272 of 287 (284171)
02-05-2006 3:39 PM
Reply to: Message 271 by Modulous
02-04-2006 7:34 PM


Re: Just some thoughts, Im no expert
I dont know how to box up quotes the way you do so if you can explain how to do this, much appreciation.
Alot of scientists do actually believe that the universe came from nothing, I have been witness to this on many occasions, They actually think someone who believes otherwise is dim-witted, or of a lower class working mind,
Should'nt the theory of the big bang actually discuss how it got there, because that is the very foundation on which that particular theory lies upon. I mean the big bang theory has lots of other theories built upon it, who in turn have lots of theories built upon them.(thermodynamics, Eh!)
So the question of the origins of the big bang would seem to me to be of a matter of extreme importance to the scientific and none scientific world in general, would it not?
Physicist Steven Weinberg, (who won a nobel-prize for physics)said within the tiniest split second, the tempreture hit a hundred thousand million degrees Centigrade, and that the matter rushing apart consisted of such elementary particles as negativley charged electrones, positivley charged positrons and neutrinos,which lack both electrical charge and mass, and interestingly there were also photons: the universe he said was filled with light.
Then God said "...Let there be light..."
I thought there was a cause to radioactive decay, an unstable nuclei, but thanks to the law of entropy the decay produces another nucleus and so on and so forth until a stable one is formed. My belief is that it is more like a metamorphic nature within types of atoms, and anyway the fact that the atoms are there to begin with, with their own nature and doing their thing suggests to me that they do have a cause, because they are doing it.
In my opinion the law of causiality is a fact, and there is no real evidence to suggest otherwise.
My analogy of the elephant making itself out of nothing was just to illustrate the chances of something totally functional, and complex in design coming forth from "absolute nothingness" without cause, we know it wouldnt happen.
The same way we know ever oxygen molecule wouldnt gather in the corner of a room without there first being a cause for them to do that. Which just brings it right back to the Fundamental foundational question, how and why did the universe come into being out of absolute nothingness. Because without first understanding that the foundations of a building need to be in order, we cannot build it on with any safety
Which is exactly what the modern scientific world has done.
And that is also a fact.
As for extra universe and its physics, no one knows a thing about them, everyone is in the same boat, its all relative, hehe excuse the pun,
For that matter no one really knows a thing about the known universe, we know only three percent of the sky, and in that we know more about space than we do about our own oceans.
No, in my opinion man loves to look for new things, new ideas, new possibilities, theories built upon theories, whilst most are never proven either way, and the things we do know are of no real benefit to the universe, since most inventions, products and whatever else man has discovered is mostly doing nothing but exhausting the earth. Man himself in all his knowledge seeking wisdom has created nothing but a catastrophic mess of the universe, who knows what effects are happening to the universe becuase of our abuse of the earth, and its not too far fetched when you consider that we are already buggering up our weather patterns, our filthy living is the destruction of our planet, and its all be done in the name of Knowledge and mans continual search for more of it.
"...The LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden, and there He put the man whom He had formed. And out of the ground the LORD God made every tree grow that is pleasant to the sight and good for food. The tree of life was also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil..." gen 2:8-9
"...Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, “Has God indeed said, ”You shall not eat of every tree of the garden’?”
And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden; but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, ”You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die.’”
Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate. Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves coverings..." gen 3:1-7
Now does that not sound familiar?
Mans progress, more like regress!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 271 by Modulous, posted 02-04-2006 7:34 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 273 by Modulous, posted 02-05-2006 4:17 PM Fish-in-a-bowler-hat has not replied
 Message 274 by AdminNWR, posted 02-05-2006 4:20 PM Fish-in-a-bowler-hat has not replied
 Message 275 by Dubious Drewski, posted 02-20-2006 5:27 AM Fish-in-a-bowler-hat has not replied

  
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