You are.

And what is it about conciousness that you find impossible?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

No, I just want to make sure you understand that there are many religious folk, Christians even, that are working to resolve the issue of conciousness. And many Christians, like myself, so far see no problems with conciousness being a purely physical construct.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I never said consciousness was impossible. I said consciousness was not possible by the interactions of elementary particles, which make up every physical thing in this universe.

Then how are you going to get to heaven when you die? Surley you don't believe in heaven, rather I think you believe in christ raising us up when he returns but you don't believe in heaven after death.How can you come back when the organic process stops? Surley something non-physical must sustain it.

That was rude. Perhaps you are the one lacking comprehension, which is what was suggested by that paragraph. I'm on my side. We can be on the same side, but if you are wrong then you're wrong and being on the same side is not gonna make me ignore your errors. well this is a science forum

Yep, this is the problem I foresaw when you first asked the question including the word 'allow'. It definately removes a lot of meaning from the discussion.This message has been edited by Catholic Scientist, 11-04-2005 06:17 PM

CS, I think you believe other people have consciousness because you CSmorphize their instinctive and artificially selected behaviors; it is an understandable delusion. You clearly have not looked deeply into the literature in this area; it is that literature, decades of fascination with and study of the phenomena and observations in the field, that inform my observations, not my sentimental delusions.But I understand your perspective--Descartes thought animals must be automatons, too (maybe it's a Catholic thing that I wouldn't understand)--and I see that it is not an area of great interest to you.So I'll leave this topic behind after asking just a few questions:Why do you believe you are conscious?Why do you believe other people are conscious?Most importantly, do you believe intelligence can exist without consciousness?By intelligence, I mean tool-using, problem-solving, inventive, past-experience/present-scenario synthesizing intelligence, not logic- gating, brute force machine processes that are merely extensions of our own intelligence.

You could say the particles 'allow' for consciousness.

I believe animals are conscious. 1) Because the bible says we have life.
2) I am consciouslly experiencing consciousness.GO look at yourself in the mirror and pretend that is a seperate person. How do you know that person is conscious? He is, because he is you. You have in your mind, seperated him though, so you are able to view him as a different person. This is how you understand other people are conscious as you are conscious. Now the guy in the mirror isn't really conscious, but it is a nice creepy trick to help you understand how other people are consciouss to a slight extent.Just because it is beyond your understanding, does not mean that people are not conscious as you are conscious. Because they are a different consciousness, you cannot experience their consciousness, therefore you cannot understand them being conscious. You just have to accept it.

Particles can:1. Emit particles.
2. Decay into other particles.
3. Move based on kinetic energy.
4. Respond to other particles on contact ( or proximity I am not sure which) by doing 1 and or 3 (or maybe 2 to I don't know for sure.)Particles do not allow for consciousness, they only allow for spacial events.This message has been edited by Guidosoft, 11-04-2005 07:25 PM

No you just didn't understand it. I wasn't wrong. Really? I thought this was a creation vs. evolution forum, which is what this thread relates to.

But you have not provided any reason for that to be true. All you've done is make an assertion.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

There you go off into nonsense again. You do not know whatI believe.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

again, that's simply an assertion. You need to show that conciousness is not just the sum of firing neurons.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion