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Author Topic:   Discrimination ok, if based on religion? what else then?
Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 197 of 248 (382659)
02-05-2007 5:18 PM
Reply to: Message 193 by anastasia
02-05-2007 4:57 PM


Re: Homosequality
The Catholic church did not 'endorse Nazi Germany'. It maintianed a neutral stance...
Yeah... wouldn't want to go taking a stand on something as morally ambiguous as genocide.

"I know some of you are going to say 'I did look it up, and that's not true.' That's 'cause you looked it up in a book. Next time, look it up in your gut."
-Stephen Colbert

This message is a reply to:
 Message 193 by anastasia, posted 02-05-2007 4:57 PM anastasia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 198 by anastasia, posted 02-05-2007 5:27 PM Dan Carroll has replied

  
Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 199 of 248 (382686)
02-05-2007 7:28 PM
Reply to: Message 198 by anastasia
02-05-2007 5:27 PM


Re: Homosequality
It is about taking a stand on politics, Dan.
Yes, the politics of killing 11 million people. That's the kind of thing on which religion should just stay nice and neutral.
There was little proof at that time that any genocide was taking place.
It must have been easy to assume that 11 million people had just sorta taken an extended nap. Best not to say anything before all the facts are in.
Either way, I'm sure the Catholic Church rushed right out to correct their mistake, and acknowledge what a bad thing that neutrality was immediately after the horrible truth had come to light. To do otherwise would just be sick.

"I know some of you are going to say 'I did look it up, and that's not true.' That's 'cause you looked it up in a book. Next time, look it up in your gut."
-Stephen Colbert

This message is a reply to:
 Message 198 by anastasia, posted 02-05-2007 5:27 PM anastasia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 202 by anastasia, posted 02-05-2007 11:01 PM Dan Carroll has replied

  
Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 203 of 248 (382766)
02-05-2007 11:12 PM
Reply to: Message 202 by anastasia
02-05-2007 11:01 PM


Re: Homosequality
It is very easy to judge from your swivel chair.
I'm sure there's a proper context in which the murder of 11 million people suddenly becomes debatable, morally. Who am I to judge?
Just read up on it.
Schraf's post above makes for interesting reading.
I am often surprised that those who do not believe in Papal authority even ask for Popes to be involved in politics.
It doesn't take a tremendous amount of involvement in politics to say the words, "genocide is wrong."

"I know some of you are going to say 'I did look it up, and that's not true.' That's 'cause you looked it up in a book. Next time, look it up in your gut."
-Stephen Colbert

This message is a reply to:
 Message 202 by anastasia, posted 02-05-2007 11:01 PM anastasia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 206 by anastasia, posted 02-05-2007 11:19 PM Dan Carroll has replied

  
Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 205 of 248 (382770)
02-05-2007 11:18 PM
Reply to: Message 204 by anastasia
02-05-2007 11:13 PM


Re: Homosequality
Please, I can't do links...
Highlight the URL. Hold "ctrl" and press "C".
When writing your post, hold "ctrl" and press "V".

"I know some of you are going to say 'I did look it up, and that's not true.' That's 'cause you looked it up in a book. Next time, look it up in your gut."
-Stephen Colbert

This message is a reply to:
 Message 204 by anastasia, posted 02-05-2007 11:13 PM anastasia has not replied

  
Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 207 of 248 (382775)
02-05-2007 11:24 PM
Reply to: Message 206 by anastasia
02-05-2007 11:19 PM


Re: Homosequality
Then you might like; The Myth of Hitler's Pope by Rabbi David Dalin.
There are handy-dandy instructions in my previous post that will help you support your points.
Edit: Ut... I see you've added a link. It suggests that the Pope in fact saved hundreds of thousands of Jews from the holocaust.
How could the Pope have been saving Jews from the holocaust, and simultaneously been unaware that the holocaust was happening? That seems kind of impossible.
Obviously it doesn't take a tremendous amount of anything to believe the first thing you hear.
In this case, I heard that genocide is wrong. I understand that this might me seem downright gullible, but I'll go ahead and stick with it.
Edited by Dan Carroll, : No reason given.

"I know some of you are going to say 'I did look it up, and that's not true.' That's 'cause you looked it up in a book. Next time, look it up in your gut."
-Stephen Colbert

This message is a reply to:
 Message 206 by anastasia, posted 02-05-2007 11:19 PM anastasia has not replied

  
Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 214 of 248 (383011)
02-06-2007 4:47 PM
Reply to: Message 213 by anastasia
02-06-2007 4:08 PM


Re: Homosequality
From your link:
There is general agreement that the Concordat increased substantially the prestige of Hitler's regime around the world. As Cardinal Faulhaber put it in a sermon delivered in 1937: "At a time when the heads of the major nations in the world faced the new Germany with cool reserve and considerable suspicion, the Catholic Church, the greatest moral power on earth, through the Concordat expressed its confidence in the new German government. This was a deed of immeasurable significance for the reputation of the new government abroad."
That's not exactly a ringing endorsement of your already-morally-questionable neutrality argument.

"I know some of you are going to say 'I did look it up, and that's not true.' That's 'cause you looked it up in a book. Next time, look it up in your gut."
-Stephen Colbert

This message is a reply to:
 Message 213 by anastasia, posted 02-06-2007 4:08 PM anastasia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 215 by anastasia, posted 02-06-2007 10:51 PM Dan Carroll has replied

  
Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 217 of 248 (383174)
02-07-2007 10:39 AM
Reply to: Message 215 by anastasia
02-06-2007 10:51 PM


Re: Reichskonkordat
Hitler proved that this Cardinal's confidence was mis-placed, and he fooled many, many people in the same way.
I'm still confused as to how the church managed to be fooled into thinking the holocaust wasn't going on, but still send the Pope on a one-man rescue mission, a la Rambo, to single-handedly save hundreds of thousands of Jews from the holocaust.

"I know some of you are going to say 'I did look it up, and that's not true.' That's 'cause you looked it up in a book. Next time, look it up in your gut."
-Stephen Colbert

This message is a reply to:
 Message 215 by anastasia, posted 02-06-2007 10:51 PM anastasia has not replied

  
Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 220 of 248 (383221)
02-07-2007 2:09 PM
Reply to: Message 219 by anastasia
02-07-2007 2:03 PM


Re: Call for Historic Accuracy
I provided a link to Rabbi Dalin's book review to exemplify that in history, there are facts, and in histories, there are interpretations.
I see. Those 700,000 people may or may not have actually been saved by the church, in reality. But it's fun to interpret history in such a way that they were.

"I know some of you are going to say 'I did look it up, and that's not true.' That's 'cause you looked it up in a book. Next time, look it up in your gut."
-Stephen Colbert

This message is a reply to:
 Message 219 by anastasia, posted 02-07-2007 2:03 PM anastasia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 222 by anastasia, posted 02-07-2007 2:19 PM Dan Carroll has not replied

  
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