EvC Forum: Ken Ham is ... EXPELLED

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Topic: Ken Ham is ... EXPELLED

ringo

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Posts: 20940

From: frozen wasteland

Joined: 03-23-2005

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Message 28 of 76 (609906)
03-24-2011 12:12 PM

Reply to: Message 26 by Buzsaw
03-24-2011 12:09 PM

Re: Homeschooling conventions

Buzsaw writes:

How does your "avoidance group" fare relative to scoring vs public schools.

If they're avoiding evolution, how would you expect them to score in biology?

If you have nothing to say, you could have done so much more concisely. -- Dr Adequate

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	Message 26 by Buzsaw, posted 03-24-2011 12:09 PM		Buzsaw has not replied

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	Message 31 by slevesque, posted 03-24-2011 3:11 PM		ringo has replied

ringo

Member (Idle past 442 days)

Posts: 20940

From: frozen wasteland

Joined: 03-23-2005

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Message 32 of 76 (609922)
03-24-2011 3:21 PM

Reply to: Message 31 by slevesque
03-24-2011 3:11 PM

Re: Homeschooling conventions

slevesque writes:

I think they can perform just as well as anyone, first because the ToE is usually a small portion of the biology class even in public schools, and second because a kid can learn the mechanism of RM+NS without necessarily believing that it can amount to anything.

So you're saying that Buzsaw's point about test scores is irrelevant. I agree. Homeschoolers can learn to fake it instead of learning science.

If you have nothing to say, you could have done so much more concisely. -- Dr Adequate

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	Message 31 by slevesque, posted 03-24-2011 3:11 PM		slevesque has not replied

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	Message 33 by slevesque, posted 03-24-2011 3:31 PM		ringo has replied

ringo

Member (Idle past 442 days)

Posts: 20940

From: frozen wasteland

Joined: 03-23-2005

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Message 34 of 76 (609930)
03-24-2011 4:14 PM

Reply to: Message 33 by slevesque
03-24-2011 3:31 PM

Re: Homeschooling conventions

slevesque writes:

So learning about something, without believing it, is faking it ?

Learning to regurgitate onto a test paper while secretly rejecting the evidence is faking it, yes.

slevesque writes:

And when I study my physics classes at university (which is science), am I ''faking it'' because I think the ToE is false ?

Taking an ignorant, uninformed stand on biology doesn't relate directly to studying physics. However, rejecting one area of science does call into question the honesty of your approach to science in general.

If you have nothing to say, you could have done so much more concisely. -- Dr Adequate

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	Message 33 by slevesque, posted 03-24-2011 3:31 PM		slevesque has replied

Replies to this message:
	Message 40 by Buzsaw, posted 03-24-2011 10:32 PM	ringo has replied
	Message 44 by slevesque, posted 03-24-2011 11:29 PM	ringo has replied
	Message 52 by Percy, posted 03-25-2011 6:28 AM	ringo has replied

ringo

Member (Idle past 442 days)

Posts: 20940

From: frozen wasteland

Joined: 03-23-2005

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Message 43 of 76 (609957)
03-24-2011 11:13 PM

Reply to: Message 40 by Buzsaw
03-24-2011 10:32 PM

Re: Homeschooling conventions

Buzsaw writes:

The point of my question (abe: which initiated this segment of the debate) was to determine how home schooled children score compared to public school children.

And my point is that the test scores are irrelevant if the homeschooled children are only learning to do well on tests.

If you have nothing to say, you could have done so much more concisely. -- Dr Adequate

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	Message 40 by Buzsaw, posted 03-24-2011 10:32 PM		Buzsaw has not replied

ringo

Member (Idle past 442 days)

Posts: 20940

From: frozen wasteland

Joined: 03-23-2005

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Message 47 of 76 (609966)
03-25-2011 12:40 AM

Reply to: Message 44 by slevesque
03-24-2011 11:29 PM

Re: Homeschooling conventions

slevesque writes:

... a theory isn't an absolute truth; it is a human construct to try and explain the data, and if someone feels it does not adequatly do so he is free to think something else.

They are free to think something else with good reason, not just because the theory conflicts with their superstition. Creationists are not replacing the Theory of Evolution with an alternative explanation at all, so their rejection of the theory is not valid.

slevesque writes:

In my own field, if I ever go on and actually become a physicist, it will be expected of me that I accept and reject certain theories.

Of course. But you're acceptance and/or rejection of theories is supposed to add to physics, not just say, "Nuh uh," to the bits and pieces that you don't like.

If you have nothing to say, you could have done so much more concisely. -- Dr Adequate

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	Message 44 by slevesque, posted 03-24-2011 11:29 PM		slevesque has not replied

ringo

Member (Idle past 442 days)

Posts: 20940

From: frozen wasteland

Joined: 03-23-2005

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Message 61 of 76 (609996)
03-25-2011 11:28 AM

Reply to: Message 52 by Percy
03-25-2011 6:28 AM

Re: Homeschooling conventions

Percy writes:

I don't think there are too many creationists out there "faking" an understanding of evolution.

I agree. Homeschooled students have high scores not because they understand evolution but because they aren't being asked about evolution. If they go on to higher education, they will be asked.

If you have nothing to say, you could have done so much more concisely. -- Dr Adequate

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	Message 52 by Percy, posted 03-25-2011 6:28 AM		Percy has seen this message but not replied

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	Message 68 by Buzsaw, posted 03-25-2011 8:04 PM	ringo has not replied
	Message 70 by Buzsaw, posted 03-25-2011 8:17 PM	ringo has replied

ringo

Member (Idle past 442 days)

Posts: 20940

From: frozen wasteland

Joined: 03-23-2005

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Message 71 of 76 (610053)
03-25-2011 9:08 PM

Reply to: Message 70 by Buzsaw
03-25-2011 8:17 PM

Re: Scientific Aspirations

Buzsaw writes:

If they share Sleve's aspirations, they will go on to higher education where they will learn the answers.

The problem is that they won't get the answers that they want to hear. Homeschooling can avoid real science up to the high school level but no post-secondary education is going to support creationism.

If you have nothing to say, you could have done so much more concisely. -- Dr Adequate

This message is a reply to:
	Message 70 by Buzsaw, posted 03-25-2011 8:17 PM		Buzsaw has replied

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	Message 72 by NoNukes, posted 03-25-2011 9:40 PM	ringo has not replied
	Message 73 by Buzsaw, posted 03-25-2011 10:36 PM	ringo has replied

ringo

Member (Idle past 442 days)

Posts: 20940

From: frozen wasteland

Joined: 03-23-2005

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Message 74 of 76 (610066)
03-25-2011 11:17 PM

Reply to: Message 73 by Buzsaw
03-25-2011 10:36 PM

Re: Scientific Aspirations

Buzsaw writes:

They will teach what their employer hires them to teach. In some situations, they may have the opportunity to answer questions of students pertaining alternative views which those students may wonder about.

Who said anything about teaching? We were talking about slevesque, who's pursuing a science degree. He might be able to get a physics degree while turning a blind eye to evolution but he's not going to learn anything at university that supports creationism.

If you have nothing to say, you could have done so much more concisely. -- Dr Adequate

This message is a reply to:
	Message 73 by Buzsaw, posted 03-25-2011 10:36 PM		Buzsaw has not replied

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