What gives God the right to be "holy"?

You could compare Yahweh with a autocratic Dungeon Master in D&D where the saying goes 'my world, my way'.Of course when you get a bad DM you can leave the game and find someone else who is more amiable.But would Yahweh let us do that? Obviously not and this gets to your point. Yahweh gets to to what Yahweh wants simply through dint of the fact Yahweh has the biggest god damn stick in the universe.Might makes right to the sons of Abraham, I fear.Edited by Larni, : Spellingk

What if he is right in his assessment? You can't say that Cavediver is wrong with absolute certainty, can you?Any way, your point in no way addresses the point that Yahweh gets to decide what is holy by fiat alone. Who says (apart from him, anyway) that Yahweh is holy?

But the point is that Yahweh dictated that Man need be redeemed. This was a pointless and tyrannical act, no?

So Yahweh takes out a divine tenner and gives it to himself as the price of purchase of man back to himself?I stand by my point: that was pointless. Because the 'curse' only came about through his own action. He charged himself for his own action and paid himself.A far better way would have been for him to say "tell you what, your not cursed".This would have saved billions of people eternal damnation and Jesus having to take a weekend off of work. I've got kittens who have to stay in the house till they are 6 months old. If I left the front door open and gave them the choice of going out into the street (which has a society of brawling kitties fighting over our front garden) and then leaving the door ajar so they can chose to come back in; is that love?That's not love that negligence! Sigh. If he really cared he would not have been negligent in his care. Jesus was inconvenienced for a weekend: Yahweh did not need to engineer for humanity to need redeeming in the first place.And another thing: all the people since A+E are punished for another persons actions and then redeemed by another persons actions? What good is that? Humanity seems to have no say in the matter; so much for free will, eh? By the omission of action of a negligent parent!Yahweh has engineered a situation where humanity must idolize him or suffer eternal damnation and the only rationale is because no could stop him.Why not just let us get on with it without his interference and narcissistic need to be idolised? Why can't he keep his interfering face and arse out of humanity's business?Narcissistic Personality Disorder: You only need 5 of the above. Fits Yahweh to a tee.http://www.echo.me.uk/npd1.htm#criterion

But he's also a cruel bastard as well. Why be like him?

It's nothing to do with ranting and raving it's to do with naive youngsters being looked after by someone with no knowledge of how to deal with children!I would want my kids to have free will but that does not mean I have to set them up with a situation where one choice is neutral and one choice is damnation every after.Who in their right would would offer that to a child?I would expect them to make mistakes and not punishes them and their grand children and great grand children etc for ever after for said mistake.I would not exposed electrical wires with live current running through it within easy reach and say 'don't touch' before walking away to let them do what I already know they will do.This is what your god did (for some reason known only to him based on his fiat).

A: No one designed it.2: Irrelevant to the topic. Running away? How Christian. But this is the whole point of this thread! 'By definition' is by definition as supplied by you god. He says what is right, no arguments; and you believe him, why?Like the wife beater who says with a straight face 'I'm doing this because I love you. You are nothing without me'. Jesus damned? Pull the other one, it's got bells on. Jesus was inconvenienced for a weekend and ended up living it large with daddy dearest in Castle fucking Greyskull up in heaven.Damned? Do me a favour!

This is exactly what my incoherent rantings were trying to convey.5/5!

But you forget that as the state of holiness is contingent upon the dictates of Yahweh and you choose not to recognise his state of grace you must be deceiving yourself.If only you knew what true happiness was...(as defined by Yahweh, of course).Edited by Larni, : Lying to deceiving.

Were your god to say "rather than go through the rigmoral of myself (Jesus) taking on the sin that is forced upon humanity by my (Yahweh's) own poor stewardship I will be a better steward of humanity in the first place. I will also not blame innocent people for the parents actions" the world would be a much better place. Yahweh could make the world a lot nicer place than it is but he chooses not to and then expects idolisation like a narcissist: that's why. Very true. A short cut to less suffering in the world. Again, if he had not invented the concept of sin forgiveness would be not required.Why not just let humans get on with it? Him sticking his big face and arse into people's business seems pointless self aggrandisement.

You could try rebutting the points?!?

This shows how you read what you want to see. The word is Dungeon Master and it is not a negative title in the slightest.This is solid evidence that you are seeing this thread though a lens of faith and indignation.

I contended Narcissistic PD but this was poo pooed out of hand.

Here is the crux of the matter.It is only just because your god makes a conscious decision to declare that x is just and y is unjust.By what right (other than he is bigger and harder than mere humans) does he have the right to declare what is just and what is not?That is the point of this thread.

But that's just it, isn't it? You assume. You have no real reason to suppose he is good apart from blind faith. Free will again?So you god is incapable of evil? Then why input evil into the universe in the first place.I't like me making a perfectly happy world and then inputting evil into the world: what's the point in that?Why input evil into the world if I'm not evil? What would I gain?Apart from the smug satisfaction that Job really does love me regardless of the level of bastardry I inflict on him.You tell us that your god is great and yet I see no evidence of his greatness other than the existential dread of going to hell for not resisiting the very thing he choose to input into the universe.