Kalam Cosmological argument

nice double-speaknow for you 2 premise's swap universe and creator around , tweek the rest a little and you have shown the universe creates god ...hmmm .actual infinities can exsist in the human mind , we can think in that way , therefore they are as valid as all other exsistance .and to finish ,the universe can into exsistancethe creator is the cause of the universecause lead to action ie the creation .cause to action is a sequence with direction A to Ba sequence needs time to give it directionthe act of creation is a time bound eventthe creator had a part in the creationthe creator was part of a time bound eventthe creator is part of and event which is a change .. from no universe to a universethus the creator is part of a change .thus the creator is neither timeless or changlessif the creator is with out begining time is infiniteif time is infinite there are actual infinitiestherefore to all intent the universe is part of an infinityso when did is come into exsistance ??

no sorry that does not work ..
if creator totally seperate .. then this means no interaction .. no interaction means no cause ... no event
if the creator has potential the realisation of the potential .. ie creation ,is a change ..potential .. to action .. to effect again a sequence therefore time bound .if there is no change then the universe has always been there , it has no point of creation then time is infinite , BUT if it was created X billion yrs or 6k yrs ago it has a start point , therefore a change occured .. any creator , by deff , must be involed , therefore a change involing the creator occurs , thus the creator is part of a change ... [qs]Time isn't infinite because space and time are conjoined. One doesn't exist without the other, and because space had a finite beginning, then so did time. Therefore, the point still stands.[\qs]now you are happy to plead a case that the creator is timeless and spaceless .. odd arrangement this must be .then why will you not allow a case for time to be spaceless .. if the creator wants it so is it beyond the creators powers ???

[qs]But a creator outside the universe could have ways of manipulating that universe, ways that don't count as "interaction" in the sense of the word that applies within the universe. The effect of actions of the external creator would be seen by those inside the universe as uncaused events.[\qs]but im quite happy to use the word interact is the widest usage of the word , ok so its not a electrical current or focus gravity waves BUT if the creator creates there is a interaction OR the creator is plays no part in the creation and is a errlevence to the whole thing .How we perseve what the creator has done makes no differnce to the event .. if the creator is the cause the creator is part of the event linecreator to cause to action to event a sequence therefore time bound .....

[qs]Computer scientists are capable of creating virtual worlds and of influencing those virtual worlds, while they themselves are not part of the virtual worlds they create.[\qs]wrong the scientist are attached to the world via the computer .. all influance flows via the code they write ... also the virtial world influance the scientist , what happens shapes the next step the scientist make .. there is a feedback from the created world ......

ok tryinjg not to get side tracked in what and what is not mater space time and chesse from the OPquoting , with text between *** being mine***
1. Whatever begins to exist has a cause of its
existence.
**** what ever begins to exist is part on a sequence .. absence /cause /action /effect /exisitance ..
2. The universe began to exist.
**** so it seems , at least in its present form ***2.1 Argument based on the impossibility of an
actual infinite.2.11 An actual infinite cannot exist.
*** please show working ....are we limiting to the physical eg 012345678 please tell me where the numbers stop ? if a creator exists out side the universe how big is their realm ? how many option for the creator are there?? ***
2.12 An infinite temporal regress of
events is an actual infinite.
*** well , yes now how long has the creator been around ???? ***
2.13 Therefore, an infinite temporal
regress of events cannot exist.
*** only if you show 2.11 to be true in all cases . btw if 2.13 is true then the creator is limited , agreed ?***2.2 Argument based on the impossibility of
the formation of an actual infinite by
successive addition.
**again show why .. is not a infinity the sum of all its parts ..does infinity mean 1 , 2 and 2346.88 do not exsist ?***2.21 A collection formed by successive
addition cannot be actually infinite.***1++1+1+1+1+1+1+1.... how long have we got ?? pleasshow your working see above 2.2
2.22 The temporal series of past events
is a collection formed by successive
addition.***viewed from where ?? history is a lump , only when you use time as a direction is it successive .. NOT wishing to go off topic but we get into very muddy area here about if events are set or not , jnust making the point that given certain opinions time is just a direction and is optional .***
2.23 Therefore, the temporal series of
past events cannot be actually
infinite.
*** self for filling statement3. Therefore, the universe has a cause of its
existence.*** only by applying your limits to the happening , see how many other limits we can add in , ***

returning to the OPtaking a differnet point [qs]3. Therefore, the universe has a cause of its
existence.[\qs]for the debate let us assume the quote is correct ...ok so what are the possible causes ...a)there was a void and voids are unstable ??b)universes are the natural state of "everything" hence they always happen if there is not one there ..... ie the lowest stable enregy state ....c)the exsistance of the universe is cyclic .. the death / decay / collapse prompts the star tof a new cycled) the universe is a aberration and is a total fluke at the far end of a probility curve .e) some intelligence that has no pyhsical form , that is timeless , changeless and infinite , and is capabile of creating the universe , chosse to make one for some reasonf)some other explaination based on scientific knowledge we currently lack .g)the gods needed something to watch on rainy tuesday nights , and so made the universe as a reality tv style show .h)our universe was created by another universes rulers dumping their garbage into the void .PLease add any more possible causes ..... maybe we could have a vote ..oh btw if it is e) and e) is infinite where does the universe come from , as you can subtract or add to a infinity ..BUT pre creation no universe ...post creation universe ...or maybe e) is not changless hmm but change must include time so ooohhh guess e) is not a good bet