Gay marraige and the end of the world

Although I don't spend that much time here, I could have sworn that you have at least once or twice identified yourself as both a fundy and a gay marriage opponent. Have you changed your mind or have you been hacked?

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What threat would my marriage to the person I love pose to you or to your children?

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From what I remember riverrat had written a while back, he said that allowing gay marriage would violate his rights by forcing him to accept something that he considers immoral. If you think about it, he is kinda right. The institution of marriage isn't something like the lutheran church or the catholic church. It's a legal institution, meaning it's universal to everyone. When you and someone else identify yourselves as married, it's not like saying "we're lutherans" or "we're catholics," where everyone can either agree or disagree whether you're really lutherans or catholics. When you say you're married, everyone has to agree with you.Oops, accidently pressed submit.What I was saying, when you say that you're married, even the ones that think you're an abomination, they have to agree that you have been accepted into the institution of marriage. Since they live in the same country and society as you do, it can be viewed that by agreeing with something so evil, they are just as damned as you.No, I don't think most fundies object to gay marriage because of this reason. I don't even think that many of them have the mental capacity to actually read and understand the bible. However, at the top of their very linear food chain, you're going to encounter something like this.This message has been edited by GoodIntentions, 01-09-2006 06:11 PM

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They have to agree that you are legally married, but they are in no way forced to accept the marriage in a spiritual, religious, or moral sense. That remains an individual choice.

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You are still not thinking in the mindset of a fundy. To them, the state policy should include certain moral standards, specifically those of the christian fundies. Forget what's right or good for this country.Remember that not too long ago a whole country could be excommunicated making all its citizens hellbound just because the king did something the pope didn't like. Even nowadays, some christian fundies still breach that a whole society is condemned because a certain "immoral" policy is imposed.In this particular case, they don't care about individual rights. They don't care about how they are hurting other fellow human beings. They have been indoctrinated to think that it's their goal in life to push for a theocracy, and the gay marriage issue, which in my opinion shouldn't be an issue at all, is just another way for them to make their statement.

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For example: I'm sure there are (unfortunately) many in the US that still refuse to accept interracial marriages as valid on moral grounds.

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I don't think this is a very good comparason. We, as a society, have evolved to a point where everyone has generally agreed that racism is bad. We still have not gotten anywhere near that far with homophobia and some other -isms. In fact, it is still A-OK and even encouraged in some communities to fully identify oneself as a homophobe.Just a month ago, I was attending a meeting held by the student racial diversity something something, mostly composing of afro-americans (aka blacks), on a local campus. I was there because I had nothing better to do. While sitting, I overheard some black "dudes" complain on how they are sick of racist remarks they have heard before. I can't say I have encountered much racism before so I continued to listen. The other people around him started agreeing in their black slangs and such.Anyway, I just couldn't help myself and I casually asked the group, "what do you think of homophobia?" To my surprise, most of them outright identified themselves as homophobes and proud of it. The ones that didn't actually say they were homophobes went ahead and agreed with the others. After that, they began to make homophobic remarks and how those "fags" needed to be shot.The point is among the commoners homophobia isn't viewed as wrong or hurtful. How can we begin to change people's minds in this matter if most of them are religious and regularly attend weekly preachings by preachers who are bigots themselves?Earlier this year... rather earlier last year a friend of mine told me that he strongly believed that our best hope is to wait for not-so quiet minority to die off (from old age) and moose's "quiet majority" to turn gay so our cause will be theirs.This message has been edited by GoodIntentions, 01-09-2006 09:52 PM

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riverrat writes

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No, someone hacked your brain into thinking I claimed to be a fundie, and gay marraige is not a word to me.

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First of all, you can't hack a biological brain, mate. You can only hack something that identifies a person, say your account on here.The other thing is gay marriage composes of 2 words, not 1.Why am I nitpicking? I don't feel that you have read my previous post very closely.

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There are people who hate God, and there are people who just don't believe in it.

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And there are people who apparently don't believe in homosexuality or the very concept of gay marriage. I don't necessarily respect your beliefs, but I let you have it. What's worse, I even recognize the existence of your beliefs.

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I find the hatred from both sides (liberal/conservative/whatever) replusive. It just plain sucks.

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You are operating under the assumption that there's something wrong with labeling or hating the other side and if you don't label yourself that way that somehow we should recognize you as having the moral high ground. Before you go ahead and deny this, don't even think about it. In this regard, the only difference between you and me is I admit it.Although I do put label on people, I also embrace and support their existence.Let me clarify even further.I don't like the black cultures and their slangs. I don't like ebonics. I really hate white people that make a face everytime they see or hear about an ethnic food that's not hamburger and french fries. I can't stand rock music. Religion really pushes me over the deep end.But I let you have it. I let you have all of that. I will even encourage my children to look into all of it without my input. Why? Because it's only my opinion and I don't ask that my opinion be made into the law. I pass political judgements and vote based on what I think is best of this country, not what my prejudices tell me. That includes people's continued rights to be annoying, sing and listen to rock music, go to church every sunday, pray in public, preach in the streets, and make faces and say "yuck" everytime they see an ethnic food.I don't even try to convince you that there's nothing wrong with being gay or having gay partners, because you've already made up your mind.People seem to have trouble understanding the difference between what's best for their country and what constitutes as only their opinion. We see everyday lobbyist groups that don't give a rat's ass (no pun intended) what is best for this country. They only want to push through legislations that are good for them and they don't give it a second thought whether it's good for other people as well. The anti-gay marriage movement is just another such movement. And I should say the refuse-to-recognize-the-existence-or-possibility-of-the-existence-of-gay-marriage crowd is, again, just the same damn group that thinks their opinion is somehow more right than the other 100 million opinions out there.This message has been edited by GoodIntentions, 01-10-2006 04:13 PM

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Person who is afraid of spiders writes

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i don't think he hates gay people, he mentioned having gay friends.

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Riverrat, in my opinion, is a classic case of "I have nothing against gay people, I just don't agree with their lifestyle choice..."PS Did the shift button bash you in the head in the past?

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You can't change the past, you can only change the future, and name calling from both sides, will not accomplish anything.

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Sure you can change the past. All you have to do is think you know everything and try to tell people your make-belief history, like that Canadian policy with the church thing in this thread that you brought up. After it was pointed out to you that you were in fact trying to change the not so distant past, we didn't even get a simple "my bad" from you.I'm sure you think you're a good person. But frankly, your posts bother the hell out of me, the same way that those gay men in speedos bothered you. And you asked why people piled on you when you brought this issue public.