Gay marraige and the end of the world

Brenna, no more pics please. Though that is a very nice one, very artistic I must say.Let's keep it civil too please - berberry has set a fine example so far in this thread for quality posting, I'm sure everyone here can do the same.{edited into admin mode}This message has been edited by AdminIRH, 01-19-2006 11:28 AM

Guys, this topic is about gay marraige.It is NOT about why schrafinator chose not to have kids or why riverrat chose to have many.At the moment it is degenerating into a "did too! did not!" exchange between schraf and RR over whether RR insulted schraf's marraige - and if it continues like this with no further posts on topic I will close the thread, as the debate is obviously over.Riverrat, schraf said why she didn't want kids. She stated very specifically:

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The idea is that if I do not bring even more mouths into the world to be overfed by the embarassing amount of food we consume in this country, there will be that much more food, water, clean air, etc., for some other people.

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It is also true that there are some funky genetics in both my and zhimbo's side of the family and while no doctor has ever told us that we should definitely not have kids, it was definitely a factor in the choice to remain childless.

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If I were to decide to bring another life into this world, it would be because I really wanted to do it. While both Zhimbo and I enjoy kids, neither one of us have had the burning desire to have and raise a child ourselves.

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Stop asking her to repeat herself. You have your answer.Schraf, if you want to discuss the perceived insult to your marraige then take it to a new thread. All further posts here should have some relevence to the topic (and I would expect you to explain how if it's not completely clear).Please take note.

You think your picture didn't convince him?Oh alright, here:Riverrat, that's a girl over there *points at Brennakimi* Note the presense of boobs and general curviness normally associated with human females.Now no more off topic posts.

RR's main secular points, for ease of discussion:

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#1, from a non-religous point of view. The only logical reason I can come up with for being against gay marriage, and to think that being gay is in some sort of way wrong, is that, we all are born of a mother and a father. To be gay is in some way to go against that, and is some how disrespectful to the very process that brought us into existance, and kept us here on this earth for so many years. I wish I could put that into better words.

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#2 Being born gay is not a proven thing yet. This would greatly affect how I feel about this. Mind you, I sit on the fence about whether people are born gay or not. Sometimes, you can just look at a person and say, "your gay". But that is judging, so I refrain from that. You can also take on a gay appearance, and anyone could act metaphorically gay or straight, and we would never really know the difference from outward appearances. Another good reason not to judge people. Some people are just "flames", and I do not think I will ever understand that.

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#3 People have asked me, did I choose to be straight. I say yes. Because I was raised to think that being gay is ok. My first sexual encounter was almost a gay one, and I choose not to have it.
My choice may have been based on a desire, but I also choose not to smoke pot even though I desire to. I also choose to be monogomous and not be with multiple partners, even though there may be an inward desire to do so.

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#4 The animal kingdom, I have been told that there are animnals who are gay. They would even mate for life. I have yet to see any links for this, but it makes no difference, because if we start basing our society on what goes on in the animal kingdom, we are in for trouble, so scratch that idea.

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#5 I do believe that some people are gay, not by choice, but by things that may have happened to them beyond their control. I know this as fact. I have witnessed it first hand, and it has been admitted to me by homosexual people. We are the sum of our experiences.

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I heard one definition in here of love being nothing more than an extention of our survival instincts in action. A natural chemical reaction in the brain so that we may continue to exist.

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If that is true, then how can a man love a man?

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Given the option, I have never heard someone say that they would wish to have two male parents, or two female parents over one male, and one female. We all have a natural desire to have our biological parents raise us, in a peaceful and loving manor.

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Just because this is not the norm, doen't make gay marriage right.
A=C B=C but B can't =C or whatever.

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Now the other thing that I am dealing with is that I just don't feel that it is right in my heart. I will never look at 2 guys kissing, and say "awwww how cute!". Even 2 woman kissing wouldn't sexually attract me unless I thought I could be in the middle somehow. But I also made it clear that what my flesh desires sexually is not what I think should be what marriage is based on.

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RR's religious reasons:

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Now from a religous stand point, there is no way you could ever say that Jesus thinks its ok. Even though people have tried in here, I will never be convinced that Jesus thinks its ok. It's one man, one woman.

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Matthew 19: 4"Haven't you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,' 5and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh'? 6 So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate."

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That amoung other verses makes it pretty clear to me, how God made us to be.

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Hope this is usefulAdmnIRH