Immigration Bill is Un-American

The current Immigration Bill violates some basic American Values. While these values are not ensconced in law they do form a significant part of the moral\social structure that makes us America: The Declaration of Independence

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We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

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Thus any immigration bill that discriminates between individuals violates these concepts of equality and rights, most especially their right to the pursuit of happiness. Statue of Liberty

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"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me.
I lift my lamp beside the golden door."

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This has been the source of much of the vitality of the US economy and society, and every school child is brought up with this emblem of taking care of the world's rejects. The new bill turns this concept on it's head.
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(from Page not found | TIME)What we need is a system that (a) treats everyone as an equal, giving them an equal opportunity to become citizens, (b) introduces them to the basic values and concepts that form American society, and (c) provides an education for those in need of such.We also have a problem with "itinerant poor" citizens in the US, and it would be unfair to give immigrants greater opportunity than existing citizens. Back in the time of the "New Deal" there was a program for those left destitute by the depression, called the Civilian Conservation Corps (CCC):Error 404 - Page Not Found

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This environmental program put 2.5 million unmarried men to work maintaining and restoring forests, beaches, and parks. Workers earned only $1 a day but received free board and job training. From 1934 to 1937, this program funded similar programs for 8,500 women.

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The CCC taught the men and women of America how to live independently, thus, increasing their self esteem.

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This program was a double success, as it not only returned people to being valuable contributors to the overall economy, it allowed the construction of many civilian project, such as roads in National Parks, at considerable saving in public funds. It is also a part of the national heritage of values of taking care of americans.I suggest such a program be resurrected, that it be combined with welfare reform and immigration, and also include education to a high school level for those who need it (including English composition and speaking), with these conditions:

• that it be optional for any US citizen,
• that it specifically be open to those US citizens who have run out of unemployment and welfare options,
• that it be mandatory for all new immigrants,
• that any immigrants convicted of a crime (more than a misdemeanor) be deported,
• that it include some form of "national service" similar to the CCC
• such "national service" could include what is currently called the "Guest Worker Program"
• that graduation from the system would mean passing the civic, language, etcetera tests required for Citizenship
• that citizenship for new immigrants would be dependent on graduation
• the length of stay in the system for immigrants would depend on ability to pass tests at grade levels leading up to high school equivalence (GED)
• length of stay for US citizens would be voluntary on an annual basis (either re-up or leave)
• payment would be fixed ($15 per day? for "luxuries") plus room and board, child care and basic medical services

This would provide a safety-net for US citizens as well as a work-to-citizenship program for immigrants.Enjoy.Edited by RAZD, : .Edited by RAZD, : ..Edited by RAZD, : crime added

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we are limited in our ability to understand
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RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
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Personally I see no problem with this. There is probably more money sucked out of the economy by high CEO salaries than this could approach. In exchange we would have a much broader base for the economy to grow on, a base that would provide opportunity for the great American dream to anyone with the drive & commitment to get there -- another basic American value. I also think the CCC program with immigrants being in it for 2-3 years before being able to become citizens would also take the wind out of the sails of the indentured servant illegal immigration purveyors (whether mexican or asian or whatever) AND it would provide the workers so that those illegal immigration purveyors would have little opportunity to operate.These are also real issue with immigration reform.Current illegals? Line up and take your chances with everyone else, no benefit for the years already spent (other than maybe learning english to some extent). There may need to be a lottery system to match immigration to jobs & needs.This could also be a program that could be used by high school graduates to learn a job skill and provide community service for a year of two before either going on to university or into the work force (with some experience).Enjoy.

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RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
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If there is no work for the illegal and less benefit than doing it legal the problem will go away.This program would displace the illegals, fill the same jobs with people taking the legal course with the carrot of citizenship at the end of the service time. Work available would depend on ability and education for those with more than high school education and ability to speak english (as well as you do ), but the basic program would replace the sweatshops and indentured servants that plaque our nation now.The current illegals would have to apply for the program like everyone else.

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RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
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I added one dealing with crime to the list.The program could also be expanded to sentencing for minor crimes and misdemeanors: can you imagine PH being sentenced to do manual labor for a year and live in dorms with common folk? I think she'd prefer jail.This would take juvenile offenders out of their neighborhoods and into a different culture. Can you imagine a "ghetto spoiled" kid mixed with people who want to become citizens?Edited by RAZD, : No reason given.

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RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
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This program would be cheaper for the employer and offer more for the immigrant. It's not rocket math ... It offers no amnesty and no reward to illegals. They will find they need to join or go home as the work done by illegals becomes taken over by CCC legals. Joining, they are no different than other immigrants.Enjoy.

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RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
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If the goal is "rehabilitation" you would think there would have to be some goals, not just time spent sitting on rock. In fact there used to be a program of providing education to prisoners, and the participants had the lowest rate of recidivism of any rehab program. It was discontinued because people didn't think prisoners should get such extra treatment.More than education, exposure to other social environments may be the biggest plus to opening young eyes to their possibilities not being limited by their way of living.It's the old "give a man a fish and you feed him for one day, teach him to fish and you feed him for life" eh?Enjoy.

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RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
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That is why a lottery is the bets way to select them. An arbitrary vote. (and immigration is different from asylum for political purposes). What we need are quotas for numbers of workers to come. It seems to me that if we have an illegal worker problem that the immigration quotas have been too restrictive: there is more work available than immigrants.Enjoy.

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RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
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Why? I certainly don't see any relation between this claim and the following information. Work is part of the program, just as it is part of the "solution" to welfare reform of recent years, except for one difference: it provides the work as well. Did you pay income tax?Did your being there provide work for people in the Caymen Islands or were you taking work from them? And taking your salary out of their economy back here?Enjoy.

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RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
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So you did not contribute significantly to the economy of the Caymen Islands even though you used their economy to support your job. I bet you were able to deduct those costs from your income tax too. Think of the costs you paid as a fixed tax on foreign workers to give back to that economy. We ask the same of immigrant workers here eh? The wages and benefits would be such that people without any other source of income would be willing and enabled to work, and it would provide them a step towards better paying jobs in the future instead of stagnating.It would feed to bottom of the economic rung in society, and this in turn would feed the levels above it: the middle class prosperity of the the 50's followed the new deal.Enjoy.

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RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
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It's inevitable due to (1) overpopulation and (2) the globalization\homogenization of society.

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RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
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Interesting. You prefer the status quo? Or do you have a solution for the problem?

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RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
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Won't work, will only alienate Mexicans already here and make those that come less likely to abide by the laws Will never fly. Invasion of privacy yada yada Will never get done. Too much manpower and already stretched thin. Too much willingness to look the other way This will keep them away until desperate for treatment, life-threatening. More expensive Go ahead. Why wait for hospital care? Of course it won't keep people out either - the opportunities will still be seen as better here. Won't accomplish anything. Look at Quebec. A law that has worked just fine for most children born in the US. This law is also reciprocal with many countries (Canada etc) so changing it could have far reaching political ramifications. Like let them use their language and celebrate their holidays?Walls and laws have never worked, will never work. All they reveal is segregation minds in those that advocate them, divisive and antagonistic behavior.Meanwhile we have some existing natural born Americans that are worse citizens than most illegal immigrants: what should we do with them? Shoot em?Enjoy.Edited by RAZD, : No reason given.

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RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
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Didn't work did it? You have similar going on in France with adaption of english words and phrases. Outlawing it does no good. Every fence made has been breached. Lots of those forged documents are also made in the US by US citizens. You also have similar problems with other groups of illegals, yet you single out mexicans: your prejudices are showing. We have stores that close down in NON "harboring" neighborhoods for the same reason. Apparently you don't see the problem as being the same when it is caused by US citizens: your prejudices are showing again.People are people, all people are created equal with certain inalienable rights ... and nature abhors a disequilibrium.Enjoy.

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RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
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Nice straw-man arguments: shows your inability to deal with the real positions.Solve the reason for illegal immigration and you will not need a fence. We do not need one on the Canadian border.To serve the great number of legal immigrants in this country (for whom english is not a primary language) it is best to provide legal documents and public policies in languages that are easily and fully comprehended. They can still understand english sufficient for work and play without necessarily having the comprehension for complex documents. This is treating them as valuable - and equal - members of society.Dealing with crime solves the problem of "closed" stores, while eliminating immigrants only solves a small portion of the problem. Illegal immigration is not the cause of crime, the cause of crime is being disenfranchised from society. We also have a much longer border with Canada than with Mexico, yet we do not have as much of a problem with that border. The reason? There is less inequality between these two countries so there is less social pressure to move. This is necessarily bad how? Or are your narrow-minded prejudices showing again? Is your argument that it is de facto bad to be a muslim?Enjoy.

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RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
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I guess that comes down to your president failing to provide a better life for US citizens eh? Or are you blaming other countries for the failure of the US to provide better life for US citizens? So you are saying that corrupt governments are doing a better job enforcing laws while they are also stealing from the USA? I know: let's also ship back all immigrants and their descendants -- because it is not their WORKING that is the problem, it is where they are FROM. Why should someone who just happened to be BORN here get any special privileges after all? Which has nothing to do with immigration, rather it has to do with your government not meeting the needs of it's people - to provide better life for its citizens. Also has nothing to do with immigration, rather it has to do with your government not meeting the needs of it's people - to provide better life for its citizens.Instead of blaming immigration for your personal problems why not look for a real solution. Which is why we are in a failed war in Iraq? It seems to me the insanity of the Neocon side of the fence is much more detrimental to world peace than dealing with people as if they were ... oh I don't know ... PEOPLE?Perhaps you need to think things through a little further than repeating knee-jerk responses from republican talking points? As it is you don't make sense.Enjoy.

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