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Author | Topic: rat mothers | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
riVeRraT Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
Are you saying it's ok to live like rat's?
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
That is the point that is being addressed. It appears you picked a bad method of trying to make a point. Time to admit that, eh? I don't think so. The issues schraf presented really have little to do with using abortion as birth control. In every instance the rat actually gives birth and then makes a decision from there on what would be best for her survival, and the babies survival. Most of those decisions cannot relate to us, because we have many methods of feeding children, and protecting them from snakes.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
With the avaliability of adoption, why is infanticide necessary? Hey whats the difference anyway?
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
We are talking about rats.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
I meant whats the difference between killing an infant, or killing a fetus?
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
What specifically is the difference between an umbilical cord, and a nursing mother?
Are you saying just because the baby is in air, that it can survive on it's own? Woman are not invisible to me, they are the crown of creation.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
In what sense?
In regards to all living things, there is no difference. (warning the above statement is garaunteed to be taken out of context!!)
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
You can put formula in a bottle. The research to artificially duplicate the function of the uterus was abandoned in the 70's under pressure from right-to-life groups. Oh crap, I guess all those neo-natal wards I helped build were all for nothing. I don't belong to any particular groups, so I could care less about right-to-life.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
I agree with you. If you agree with me, then end the thread.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
You said that rat mothers feel similarly about their offspring as humans do. Let the confusion begin, and the out of context spam wars commence!!! That is not what I said Your like only smart when you want to be?
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
well that's really dishonest for YOU to say. No, brenna, you know what is really dishonest? They way people around here who claim to be so smart, and know so much about the world, and science (chuckle) and can't even manage to keep the context in which something was said, in context. Then to have someone who has nothing to even do with it, come along and join the parade. I am getting a little sick of it. This whole thread was started on that premise. Schraf took something I said, and the spirit in which I said it, and turn it around, and tried to make me, or what I said look foolish. Then you came along and joined her. The boiling point of water is 212F right? Always right? Given the same conditions. If I don't say it the right way, then it is wrong. "A rat's fetus is just as precious to a rat, as a human fetus is to a mother."This obviously means the same thing right? "You said that rat mothers feel similarly about their offspring as humans do." Of course not, she changed the meaning to support her side of the arguement. So she could continue to contort the whole thing. How many times has schraf corrected me for calling a fetus a zygote? So since when is a fetus an offspring? Not only that, but the relationship between a rat's fetus, and a human's fetus is almost exactly the same. The only difference is the reasoning us humans do. It's subjective reasoning, and there is no scientific validation for it. Let's rewind the tape, and examine why I said that. It was said because of the picture posted by crashEvC Forum: anti-abortion folks still get abortions another attempt at bringing the subject off-topic and out of context. He tried to trick me by showing a rat's fetus, while making appear to be a humans, because of the comparison he was making. To me it made no difference once the truth was told to me, because of the point I was making. So in the spirit, and the context of my train of thought, it made no difference who's fetus he posted. It still doesn't. What I am finding is that the arguement for abortion is extremely inconsistent, and lead by a parade of hypocrites. People only compare apples to apples when it suits their side of the arguement. I would really love to get along with both of you, schraf and brenna. I've taken some leadership courses, and in one of them, I read a book called clear leadership. It talks about the truth of your experience. Many large companys fall to their kness on the inability to communicate this truth to one another. Taking things out of context is that whole process in action. When someone writes somthing in a forum, it can have several meanings sometimes. Instead of picking the one you think it is, why not try to get a clearer answer on what was meant first, then go from there. That would be intelligent conversation in my book.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
ONLY those with MEDICAL expertise should be making these decisions. The context of my point had nothing to do with that. There are just as many with medical expertise that would vote for abortion, as there is against. The decision is not purely medical. You just admited that by stating that you want abortion because you do not want to further the poputlation. That is not a medical decision, but a personal one that plays games with life.
then i have no need to be attached to my fetus. So your options are:1 do have intercourse 2 use protection, and take a risk 3 get your tubes tied or 4 get an abortion, since it is currently legal. I am against this, as the first 3 should be enough. I can't see the justification, of destroying human life, just because some girl wants a thing between her legs, or some guy wants to his wet. This is not a "right" to me. This is what I learned from my experience with it. Wouldn't you agree that the decisions we make about abortion are a subjective one, not an objective one?
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
You just admited that by stating that you want abortion because you do not want to further the poputlation. That is not a medical decision, but a personal one that plays games with life. um. no. you're having some trouble with words again. i said right now i'm not interested in furthering the population. right now. i have no business trying to raise a child. i live on $800 a month; i work part time; i go to school full time; i will be in school for the next 6 years easily. right now my interests are in furthering my education. but i have no direct desire to see the human species fail as you seem to suggest. Right, so it's not a medical decision, like I said.
unlike men, if we get our tubes tied, it's permanent. I was told my operation would eventually be permanet.
thanks to our dear male-centered health system that doesn't even bother to find out women's specific heart disease related needs. ???? Oh right, woman are unimportant, I forgot.
nothing that has to do with humanity is objective. but your experience is no more objective or valuable than my experience. Yea, but somehow your view made it become legal. If our views hold equal validity, then why is your view legal? Clearly it is playing games with life, just to get laid.
you don't have an abortion because you wanted to have sex. Yes you do.
you have an abortion because your birth control method(s) failed. I am pretty sure that every form of over the counter birth control, and ones prescribed also do not come with a 100% garuntee. So it's always a risk. You want to use abortion as birth control, which to me is the worst form of abortion.
or because your boyfriend started beating you and you couldn't imagine bringing his child into the world. That's right punish your boyfriend with abortion, that'll show him. Besides it is 100% his right?
or because you were raped and your sanity has run away because you are still being occupied by your attacker. To me, this is a good reason to have an abortion.
or because your birth control method failed and you are too poor to care for your child (btw. prenatal care is ridiculously expensive so don't tell me about adoption. besides. This assumes you have a right to intercourse. If I put a boiler in incorrectly, I will have to go back and fix it. The law does not allow me to go back and uninstall it, and give the customer their money back. Having intercourse is like signing a contract agreement.
besides. no one adopts american children anymore and the process is so difficult that your child is more likely to end up in a foster home especially if there's anything 'wrong' with it). or because you're 16 (or worse) and your fundie parents never taught you how to use birth control and now they've convinced you to have an abortion so that they aren't embarrassed to walk into church with you or picket at the abortion clinic with you. did you know the average age of abortion patients in texas is 18? the AVERAGE! OMG, intercourse is sounding worse, and worse. Are you describing your situation, or the whole worlds?Because you did mention that the decision was a subjective one, but you turn it into a subjective one, by speaking for everyone else. i can honestly say that i don't really have a problem with abortion for any reason because it's not my business to go snooping into other peoples' medical records. no one should even know a woman is pregnant unless she wants them to, much less if she is considering having an abortion. these dedicated, conspicuous abortion clinics are a hazard. This is where you are wrong. Maybe we shouldn't even know these women are alive. shhhh! I have a life in my uterus, don't tell anyone so I can dispose of it. I find that line of thinking a bit on the sick side.
nonetheless. way back when, when abortion was illegal, desperate women with no options were forced to seek out 'doctors' who should be called butchers to help them. they often left them bleeding, infected, and often dead. And we should legalize heroin, to prevent people form getting bad stuff. We should also legalize murder, so that nothing happens to the murderer, we don't want them getting hurt now, do we? That is an illogical train of thought, or reasoning why abortion should be legal.
why not the experience of her doctor? By your own definition, it is not a medical decision. You don't need a doctor to tell you are poor, and do not want to further the population. Exactly, but life is life.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
If you object to a restating of your words and believe I have taken them out of context, then please explain exactly how this was done. The discussion from the other thread, from before crash posted his pictures, and the point I was trying to make was that, there is no fundemental difference between a fetus, and a born child, in regards that they both rely on an outside source for survival. This is a point that has been argued to me on this forum. That a zygote, or a fetus, is not life, because it cannot survive on it's own. Well neither can a born infant. The word offspring is clearly different than fetus. Offspring, as I read it in the dictionary refers to something that is already born. Fetus is not. So in this discussion we shouldn't be confusing the 2, and bluring definitions.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
but then you don't have a uterus and really don't have an opinion. Yes, I do have an opinion.
You want to use abortion as birth control, which to me is the worst form of abortion. bitch piss moan. I am convinced your right now....
no genius. you leave his ass and free yourself of his wretched seed. Maybe if you spent a little more time with him, to find out if his seed is wrecthed or not, you wouldn't have to worry so much about it.
i have a right to intercourse. And there are things that can happen as a result.
you're disgusting. really. have you read the constitution? do you understand what is involved in a discussion of legality? I guess that's where the expression right-to-life came from.
abortion is ending a pregnancy. It's killing life.Life you started from selfish needs. it is a medical procedure. and only the advice of a doctor should be taken when considering what to do about your own subjective reality. SO is cutting you head off for a headache. I think you should give up on the medical procedure BS. By your own definition it is a moral decision first.
your traditions, and whomever's god I hate tradition, God has nothing to do with it, and f@#k James Dobson.
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