A discussion of Gun Control for schrafinator

schrafinator,You sure are making me work at times! That is more than cool as I learn things when I go back and read them again or do even more research to justify my position. Please don't take it as a shine-off if I don't get back to you on this for a bit.You asked legitimate questions and I do want to answer them. If you would be so kind, could you please send me a couple of extra hours?Verzem

contracycle,You seem to be using the word "homicide" as if it is a bad thing. Many homicides are very good for society.A large portion of homicides are justifiable. As such, the people who do them are performing a service of great value to society. It is very comparable to weeding the garden. The more you do it, the less and less you have to do it down the road. Then end result is a beautiful garden.For some things, justice should be delivered instantaneously. The payoff is tremendous.Verzem

So what do you assert is the outcome of the Kennesaw stunt?

I have seen reports that the regulations were put on the books but never enforced. Do you have evidence that the regulations were enforced? Inspections of citizens and their homes to ensure they were complying? Prosecutions for non-compliance? If you can't provide such evidence then my assertion that Kennesaw was a stunt stands. Was I being a "schmuck" to anyone? Why are you being so defensive? A couple of those statements are empirically testable. Can you nominate which crimes are down? We are talking about Kennesaw, aren't we? From what I've read, it's more than summarily dismissing Lott and Mustard, it's exposing them as frauds who made up or distorted much of their data and lied about the outcomes. But I'm sure others will comment also.Edited for typos.This message has been edited by wj, 07-17-2004 05:58 AM

Of course, take as much time as you need to. There is no rush at all, and thanks for letting me know that you want some time to respond.

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A large portion of homicides are justifiable.

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Says who?Also, what constitutes a "large" portion?

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As such, the people who do them are performing a service of great value to society. It is very comparable to weeding the garden. The more you do it, the less and less you have to do it down the road. Then end result is a beautiful garden.

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...except that the definition of a weed is "something you don't want growing in your garden".IOW, you can have the most wonderful, hardy, healthy bluegrass growing amongst your tomato plants, but since you don't want the grass there, you pull it up and kill it.There's nothing intrinsically wrong with of bad about healthy grass plants.One person's unwanted "weed" is another's treasured life.This message has been edited by schrafinator, 07-17-2004 11:36 AM

Is the laughter directed at the fact that we don't follow international treaties or is it that you think we shouldn't be bound by them?

And you are equipped to be a prostitute, what does this say about you? There is a difference in this society between potential and action.

A quick reply to your post 231:Says who?Says many grand juries!! The figure for homicides ruled "justifiable" is probably readily available. At the moment, I don't know what the percentage is. Would you agree that a woman who kills a would-be rapist has done society a tremendous service? If not with just that information, how about if you further learned that the dude had done several other rapes earlier?And just the fact that we know "some" are ruled justifiable shoots down the credibility of that information. Like Sara Brady's sites, this one skews the figures to bias things in the direction they choose to lead the reader. I only pointed it out as a proof that along with the negative editorializing about the Second Amendment, the site was not unbiased as had been stated.And I was going to post this information in the F9/11 thread that was addressing the drugs issue, but since I brought up the weeding the garden analogy here, I guess I can segue to the drugs issue here too with this offering:If drugs were totally legalized, and in fact, given away free it is true that some would overdose. I call that pruning. Sometimes, a helathy orchard needs pruning. That way, the orchard can really flourish. Isn't it logical that it would work that way for society too?I think we can all pretty much agree on what some of the "weeds" of society are, can't we? Maybe not. But I will tell you this, if anyone crosses that final line with me; and my life, or the life of my family or friends is threatened, I will "pull the weed" without hesitation. Check that, I would gladly do it for a stranger too. As a responsible citizen with a CCW permit, it is my duty.Verzem

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Would you agree that a woman who kills a would-be rapist has done society a tremendous service? If not with just that information, how about if you further learned that the dude had done several other rapes earlier?

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I think that She has done herself a great service, but only for that immediate moment.She may be haunted by taking a life, even that of her rapists', just as she would be haunted by the rape. She may wonder the rest of her life if she really needed to kill him.Also, while I do not love or support the act of rape or rapists in general, I still think they are human beings.The thread of stranger rape, and the abduction of children by strangers for that matter, is greatly inflated in most people's minds because of the media hype.Most women and girls are raped by people they know, not strangers, anyway, like relatives, husbands, boyfriends, and aquaintences.Guns would not be useful in a situation like this because the woman wouldn't be on her guard because she already trusts the guy.Most child abductions are done by people known to the child.

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If drugs were totally legalized, and in fact, given away free it is true that some would overdose. I call that pruning. Sometimes, a helathy orchard needs pruning. That way, the orchard can really flourish. Isn't it logical that it would work that way for society too?

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That is a heartless, arrogant attitude.There but for the grace of God go you, buddy.Would you say the same thing if we allowed 6 year olds to drive cars, and if a lot of them ended up dead from car accidents, would you consider that "pruning"?What about all the people who don't end up dead but do end up impaired by brain damage, strokes, and cardiac arrests? Who's going to take care of them?Also, what about all of the children of the people who die or are maimed by abuse of drugs? Are you going to take care of them?What about all the people who do a lot of free drugs to escape mental illness instead of getting psychological help, so can't hold down a job, so all they do is do drugs and steal money for food, , until they die, using up healthcare resources, probably leaving children?I think that you are painting far too simplistic and punative view of the world.This message has been edited by schrafinator, 07-17-2004 04:59 PM

^ bump ^

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You seem to be using the word "homicide" as if it is a bad thing. Many homicides are very good for society.

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[Python] Ah, now we see the violence inherent in the system. [/Python]Yes, I think it would absolutely be a service to world if say George Bush and Rush Limbaugh were whacked tomorrow. Or better, this evening. Saying "some homicides are good for society" is the voice of the sociopath IMO.

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A large portion of homicides are justifiable. As such, the people who do them are performing a service of great value to society.

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Yes, just as I would be if I whacked the above.

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It is very comparable to weeding the garden.

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Manifest eugenics?Your responses are all good arguments for gun control.

Not only does the US flagrantly ignore international treaties - especially those on nonproliferation, which is why it struck me as amusing - and there is little to no prospect that it ever will abide by these treaties. It is in short an utterly pointless topic.

So jar, what do you assert was the outcome of the Kennesaw stunt?

I assert nothing. The outcome according to the good folk in Kennessaw was an immediate reduction in most all kinds of crimes that has remained way below either the Stae or National levels for a quarter century now.But was it only the presence of more firearms that lead to those results?or demographic differences?or education?or awareness?or economics?or...

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion