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Author Topic:   A discussion of Gun Control for schrafinator
DBlevins
Member (Idle past 3806 days)
Posts: 652
From: Puyallup, WA.
Joined: 02-04-2003


Message 159 of 409 (124184)
07-13-2004 4:46 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by jar
07-02-2004 1:19 PM


The argument that guns are to protect us from bad government is specious. Our governmental controls are such that it would take an extreme series of events for some official to gain such power that we would need to overthrow them. The idea that that would happen is in such a far off realm, of "what if?!". Second, firearms during the revolutionary war period allowed people to have close to the firepower of the offending armies. Todays armies are much more powerful, with more sophisticated firepower and technology, that a rebel army in the U.S. today would probably be not much more than a thorn in their side. Annoying and costly but hardly able to overthrow the government. Thirdly, many of our volunteer military personnel would probably be revolting along with the people and this would in my opinion eliminate any need for an armed mob.
That we still have the ability to vote and elect those who represent us keeps many officials somewhat honest.
For the record, I support people's right to carry a firearm but I am totally and unreservedly for stronger gun control. The ability and penchant to shoot someone and blow their brains out because they cut you off on the highway happens not just to criminals but to "normal" people. The fact that a gun is laying there ready for use, is just too easy of an outlet for people's anger.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by jar, posted 07-02-2004 1:19 PM jar has not replied

DBlevins
Member (Idle past 3806 days)
Posts: 652
From: Puyallup, WA.
Joined: 02-04-2003


Message 160 of 409 (124185)
07-13-2004 5:08 AM
Reply to: Message 94 by Verzem
07-04-2004 3:22 PM


Re: Those Wonderful Statistics
And you believe your stats are not manipulated in any way? Simply because they support your point of view?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by Verzem, posted 07-04-2004 3:22 PM Verzem has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 164 by Verzem, posted 07-13-2004 2:23 PM DBlevins has not replied

DBlevins
Member (Idle past 3806 days)
Posts: 652
From: Puyallup, WA.
Joined: 02-04-2003


Message 161 of 409 (124189)
07-13-2004 5:40 AM
Reply to: Message 98 by jar
07-04-2004 6:17 PM


Re: Another thing that should be considered, IMHO,
No offense jar but at this point you have been making a lot of statements based on "personal" experience. A lot of "every person I know" therefore...kind of statements.
Are you serious?
quote:
When you are armed, you simply do not get as upset about irritations as when you are unarmed.
Comparing martial arts to a firearm? You can stop yourself from killing somone using martial arts but if you are "trained" using a weapon you aim for "center of mass." The intent being deadly force. That force a person uses for the purpose of causing death or serious bodily harm. At least that was what they trained us to do in the military when qualifying the various weapons we needed to use.
Trying to just aim and shoot for a person's leg or arms doesn't work and most civilian people in a situation were they feel they need to defend themselves are not thinking ("oh i'll shoot him in the leg, that'll stop the poor bugger"), they are most likely not thinking at all and reacting.
I thought this site had some interesting studies done. My bold.
AAA foundation
quote:
In approximately 4,400 of the 10,037 known aggressive driving incidents, the perpetrator used a firearm, knife, club, fist, feet or other standard weapon for the attack. In approximately 2,300 cases the aggressive driver used an even more powerful weapon -- his or her own vehicle. And in approximately 1,250 cases the aggressive driver used his or her own vehicle and a standard weapon like a gun, knife, or club. No information was available for 1,087 of the cases reviewed.
Without question the most popular weapons used by aggressive drivers are firearms and motor vehicles. In 37 percent of the cases a firearm was used; in 35 percent the weapon was the vehicle itself.
quote:
However, as might be expected, the majority of aggressive drivers are relatively young, relatively poorly educated males who have criminal records, histories of violence, and drug or alcohol problems. Many of these individuals have recently suffered an emotional or professional setback, such as losing a job or a girlfriend, going through a divorce, or having suffered an injury or an accident. It is not unusual for friends and relatives to describe these individuals as "odd," "disenfranchised," or "a loner."
But hundreds of aggressive drivers -- motorists who have snapped and committed incredible violence -- are successful men and women with no known histories of crime, violence, or alcohol and drug abuse. When the media interview the friends and neighbors of these individuals, they hear that "he is the nicest man," "a wonderful father," or "he must have been provoked."
Personal anectdotes? At least support them with something?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by jar, posted 07-04-2004 6:17 PM jar has replied

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