CrashFrog vs. Juhrahnimo: A friendly discussion

Crash,
I truly think you got "messed up" by some non-bible believing person who gave you some MAJOR false impressions. Let's debate this. I prefer this just to be bewteen us (others can look on if it interests them of course).Since you mentioned Jesus in a different post, tell me what it was that led you to accept him as your savior? (you stated you were brought up as an atheist)

I can appreciate your feelings. But focus on Jesus, not "people" who say anything to get your attention (includes me).First, and sadly, today's Christianity has become more of a business venture for many people. It's all marketing, growth, expansion, money, and bragging rights. But don't let the false Christians ruin God's plan for you. Look at Jesus, and everything will look different. People even call Paul the world's greatest salesman, and try to use that as an excuse for their actions. In actuality, Paul got himself mobbed, beat up, whipped, jailed, and eventually killed for what he taught; wow, what an amazing salesman!But, let me point specifically to your: Exactly! "like people say", or like the "business" people say. You were probably taught something like "...there's a God-shaped vacuum in your heart that only Christ can fill" or something to that effect (you called it a hole; same thing). But the Bible does NOT teach this! Instead, the Bible teaches that we are fallen creatures and must DIE in Christ and rise up with him in the spirit and become new creatures. The Bible flat out calls this a mystery! But modern Christians have tried to circumnavigate this mystery by explaining with the "god-shaped vacuum" garbage. That's why there are so many "back-sliders" or disapointed christians who suddenly become atheists or agnostics. They were led down the wrong road, and taught to believe something that "kinda" seems to make sense, but is NOT Biblical.
So now here you are, having first had this "hole" or "vaccuum" briefly filled, only to have "matured" into thinking that God doesn't really exist (no scientific or observable evidence) after all. Sounds like you believed in the equivalent of Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny at best. And I say that to the shame of those who taught you about Christ. The best con artist on the planet couldn't have engineered a better plan of deception than that!So, now you (and so many, many others) have gone from feeling "filled" and knowing God exists and looking forward to a heavenly home, to becoming an athesist without any hope in the afterlife (when the lights go out, they throw dirt on you and "that's all, folks!") or eternity. Do you now feel more hopeful than before? Does your current "feeling" give you more hope than before (for you personally). Don't respond to that, please; just think about it and answer it for yourself.But here is something that you could respond to, please: When you "believed", did you believe that Jesus died and rose from the grave? Do you [still] believe it now? If so, why. If not, why not? (for both questions). Sorry for being do windy. Please understand this is just discussion; no winners to losers here. We're not trying to corner each other or body slam each other, and no cheap shots. Just pure discussion. When we're finished, we walk away without hard feelings.

This is not a Pascal's wager type thread. Please nevermind.
At least Crash understands what's going on here, thank goodness.

Oh, yes. Completely. Glad you stopped by to clear that up. You contributed alot to our discussion.

He hasn't answered my question. He hasn't even SEEN my question yet; he hasn't been online since my last post. Who said anything about "correcting" his way of thinking? We're just trying to discuss perspectives. We're exploring what some people told him vs might actually be in the Bible. What is a discussion board for? What are you talking about? What have you been drinking? Nice talking to you.

I just stooped to your level since that's what seemed to float your boat. But if you'd rather I stay on the high road, I can do that. So, nevermind my responses since I didn't realize you can only dish it out but can't take it. One of your supporters called Christianity, etc. B.S. (spelled out completely) but yet you didn't jump to say THAT was rude. So much for consistency.This message has been edited by Juhrahnimo, 01-16-2005 20:08 AM

Awwww, poor baby. Big, bad, mean ol' Jujrahnimo walked all over poor innocent little RAZD's thread. I'm sure that's the FIRST time anything like THAT has happened on this forum. I soooo, sorry. I did it by accident, didn't mean to.

Where did I call you stupid?????

RAZD is inconsistent. His guys have blasphemed God repeatedly, used foul language, taken words/sound bites out of context, then think it's funny. His supporters can get away with anything, then he cries that I "walked" all over his thread. But he says nothing about or to them because they support his views. And then he accused be of calling him stupid, which I never did. Then he tries to make me look like a criminal and he the victim because I "walked all over" his thread? I see people walking all over these threads/topics all the time, with ADMIN jumping in all over the place trying to keep it under control. Why did he single me out? Because I don't support his view. The "aww poor baby" routine is an old one, and I've seen it used on this forum in past posts I've read when creationists have complained about being verbally abused by evolutionists. I have to offer some balance of perspective here. The problem is that evolutionists can dish it out, but can't take it. As far as I'm concerned, it's harmless from either side UNLESS we want to make an issue out of it. Had I complained about RAZD "walking all over my thread" I bet that I'd have gotten the same type of response (although we'll never know now).
Anyway, RAZD continues his with his method of dealing with people by "making me pay" for "walking all over his thread" by walking all over mine (now let's hear it for me: AWWWWWWW! Poor Juhrah!). The difference is, I didn't mean to but he did (and does). How personally do we want to take this stuff? This forum is FULL of food fights, as ADMIN has pointed out several times, and it helps keep things quite interesting as long as we don't take it too seriously or too personally. Maybe we should use more smileys? Anyway, I didn't "hijack" anyone's thread. I just joined it. Since RAZD falsely accused me of calling him "stupid", my guess is that he has me mixed up with someone else and is falsely accusing me of more things as well. I say we just forget the whole thing; I'm not taking it personally.This message has been edited by Juhrahnimo, 01-17-2005 00:00 AM

See post 20 plz.Also: Just checking: Is it ok to talk to people that way (e.g., you nuts?)I'm always open to suggestions.This message has been edited by Juhrahnimo, 01-17-2005 00:04 AM

I remember those posts; I believe they were made by creationfan, CETAINLY NOT ME. Check again, and give me the post numbers please. If you find them and are proved right, I'll apologize. If you can't find them or are proven wrong by the ones you DO find, I accept your apology in advance.
Either way, don't just ignore this post, please. I'll await your response.Well, wait. I'll do the work for you: Check out post # 299
BOTH of the comments that you attribute to me, are found in that post (by creationfan). Sorry about that, but please make sure you read correctly before you file charges against people.Oh, AND check out post # 227 posted by (drum roll PLEASE), none other than RAZD HIMSELF! where he says: Wow, that blasts some pretty thick slime across alot of people who don't believe in evolution. I didn't notice any post that jumped on RAZD for that. And what was that you said about abrasive tones? Will you admonish RAZD for that, like you "tried" on me (I say "tried" because I'm not guilty of posting the posts you attributed to me).(Your apology is accepted in advance )

Check out post # 27. You might want to check facts before you believe the reports. I did not author the posts that I was accused of. It just goes to show that some people believe whatever they want, despite reality.Your apology is accepted in advance This message has been edited by Juhrahnimo, 01-17-2005 11:12 AM

You're still sticking to your false accusations?? Check out post # 27 above. You might want to check your facts before you believe the reports. I did not author the posts that you accused me of. It just goes to show that some people believe whatever they want, despite reality.I await your apology

Well, I appreciate your respectful post, thank you. But I must point out that MY POST did NOT specifically cause the thread to be closed down. ADMIN's comments were: The "protoge" (who couldn't stay on topic) who Admin was referring to was creationfan, and I don't even know who creationfan is; I was just patting him/her on the back a little and offering some chit chat (creationfan is outnumbered and I was just trying to be supportive). Creationfan (and others) had gotten off topic several time over 320+ posts, and Admin issued a number of warnings about it. It wasn't ONE POST that broke the camel's back. Seems to me like AdminAsqara may have thought the thread was getting a little old and too many foodfights were continuing to ensue. Admin only stated that I wasn't "helping any" in trying to "fix" someone else, and I suppose she was right. But to be accused to "hijacking" the thread? Please give me break. Perhaps my post WAS the "straw" that broke the camel's back, but if all that was needed was a "straw" then almost ANY off topic post could have done the trick (and there were plenty of others). If this is REALLY important to us, we could ask AdminAqara what she thought at the time.BUT: To then be accused by RAZD for calling him "stupid" when it was really someone else who said it, then gets backed up by others who failed to check out their facts is another story. Did you read post number 27 above? Notice the quote where RAZD himself uses the word "stupid" while not a single evolutionist jumps on him for it. But evolutionists are quick to accuse creationists in a heartbeat, oh yes.

Check out post # 20.And to your: Well, check out post # 31 above (I did NOT hijack any thread). And check out some of RAZD's other childish posts, not counting railing FALSE accusations he brought against me. You're quick to believe him, but disregard me. If a judge listens to two people who disagree, the judge then needs to shift to full blown evidence (check out post number 27 above).And don't forget about the amazing RAZD quote found in post 227 to arkathon: Why do we label certain posts as childish or abrasive and others not? Totally inconsistent. And have you noticed that nobody just jumped in to chide mikehager for posting false information about me? Or jumped on RAZD for falsely accusing me of calling him stupid when it was really someone else? Totally inconsistent. Can you explain this?Oh, and don't look now; but somebody's thread has been truly hijacked! No hard feelings, though. Keeps the brain cells bouncing.