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Author Topic:   New Hubble pictures, YEC explanations just don't make sense.
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1497 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 106 of 129 (92017)
03-12-2004 2:50 AM
Reply to: Message 99 by Reef
03-12-2004 2:07 AM


but the series in Zeno's paradox would go on forever so how could you ever add up the total series thats the point!
You add them up by finding the limit that they approach. I.e. you do calculus.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by Reef, posted 03-12-2004 2:07 AM Reef has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by Reef, posted 03-12-2004 2:52 AM crashfrog has replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1497 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 108 of 129 (92019)
03-12-2004 2:56 AM
Reply to: Message 103 by Reef
03-12-2004 2:21 AM


Reef, do you remember the Forum Guidelines? You know, the ones you agreed to when you registered? Note:
quote:
Debate in good faith by addressing rebuttals through the introduction of new information or by providing additional argument. Do not merely keep repeating the same points without elaboration.
So when we demonstrate that calculus can supply the solution to Zeno's Paradox, you can't just keep repeating "no it dusnt!" You actually have to hit us with the reason that it can't.
Caluclus provides methods for finding the sum of an infinite series of numbers by taking the limit. So your objection to the presented solution is fallacious. Calculus can and has solved Zeno's Paradox.

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 Message 103 by Reef, posted 03-12-2004 2:21 AM Reef has not replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1497 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 109 of 129 (92020)
03-12-2004 2:57 AM
Reply to: Message 107 by Reef
03-12-2004 2:52 AM


but the limit they approach is infinity
No. The limit they approach is not infinity. That's what we're trying to tell you. The limit that they approach is the point where Achillies overtakes the turtle.

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 Message 107 by Reef, posted 03-12-2004 2:52 AM Reef has not replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1497 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 113 of 129 (92035)
03-12-2004 4:34 AM
Reply to: Message 112 by Navy10E
03-12-2004 4:27 AM


You say that the universe had a begining. Did matter then also have a begining?
Obviously.
Here's an idea. Every time I get into these cosmology threads, most of it is dealing with the other guy's ignorance about the Big Bang. So why don't you stop at the library and find a copy of "A Brief History of Time"? It'll take you two afternoons to read, tops. And then you'll have a great grounding in modern cosmology. They even have an illustrated version that's really easy to read.
That's going to put you in a much better position of comprehending cosmology than my half-assed explanations.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by Navy10E, posted 03-12-2004 4:27 AM Navy10E has replied

Replies to this message:
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1497 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 115 of 129 (92038)
03-12-2004 5:59 AM
Reply to: Message 114 by Navy10E
03-12-2004 4:58 AM


I wasn't asking for the sake of information, I was asking your point of view. Gosh, testy in here arn't we?
More like "cautious". This wouldn't be the first time that a casual inquiry into cosmology turned into a "whoo-whee! them goofy scientists believe what?" situation. Big bang cosmology may be counter-intuitive but it's also supported by all the evidence.
As for a basic idea on cosmology, I've got a great, fine, well documented public high school education.
Maybe you went to a different public high school than I did, but if all you've got is high school, then you know nothing about anything, much less cosmology. No offense but you must know that to be true?
A high school education isn't going to cut it when the subject is science. Sorry, but you're going to have to augment your knowledge via books and other resources. We'll be glad to point you to stuff, though.
Since we've covered the basics and both can agree that both the universe, and the matter it is made of, had a begining, I'd like (if it won't make you too grumpy) to possibly discuss what it was that began them.
Your question doesn't make sense. Causality is a property within the universe, not beyond it. There's no "before" before time, so how can anything be said to have begun the universe?
Hopefully we can talk about and discuss those differences like truly rational adults.
Hey, me too. One way for you to hold up your end of the bargain will be to ask questions out of an honest spirit of inquiry, and not to play "stump the chumps." In return I won't treat you like an uneducated hack. We cool? Cuz so far we're not off to a great start, are we?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by Navy10E, posted 03-12-2004 4:58 AM Navy10E has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 120 by Navy10E, posted 03-12-2004 2:16 PM crashfrog has replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1497 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 122 of 129 (92130)
03-12-2004 9:26 PM
Reply to: Message 120 by Navy10E
03-12-2004 2:16 PM


enough to defending my intelligence...
It wasn't my intention to attack your intelligence. If it helps any I'm a 24-year-old college dropout.
However, I do not accept your definition of causality.
You agree, however, that causality has at least something to do with something happening before something else? That "before" is implied by "causality"?
Then that's all you have to agree with. "Before" implies linear time. Therefore you can't say that something "caused" time, because there's no "before" before time. It's as simple as that.
As to the issue of time, quite honestly, we don't know what time was like "before time".
Before time, there is no time, by definition.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by Navy10E, posted 03-12-2004 2:16 PM Navy10E has replied

Replies to this message:
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