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Author | Topic: When Fascism Comes To America | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Around here we have had discussions regarding Socialism and Fascism. Critics on the ideological Right say that America is becoming too socialist and globalist. Critics on the Left say that America is becoming Fascist and authoritarian. My critics claim that I don't even know what these terms mean, so to begin lets agree on some definitions. I used Diffen.com, as they seemed to have rational definitions.
And to be more precise, I need to break down the difference between Socialism and Communism.
Communism vs Socialism One takeaway here is this quote: Diffen:Looking rationally at this definition, I think it is silly to accuse the Left of being Communist, at least in the US. Socialism is another matter. Diffen:This would explain the insistence of the peanut gallery that the United States is devolving into fascism. What irritates me, however, is the emphasis on status being defined more from political distinctions than class(economic) distinctions. Socialists seem to insist that everyone agree on socialism and that private property, free enterprise with less government oversight, and economic distinctions be minimized. Which leads me to ask, how does a guy get ahead? Must I be content to run with the pack and merely get my quota?? In addition, based on the chart, socialism advocates Freedom of religion, but usually promotes secularism.. I suppose I can concede this point since the United States was founded on this point....loosely. I don't like the idea that being of, by, and for the people is not really One Nation under God, but, rather, One nation under freedom of relativism and secularism. It becomes a slippery slope! Jefferson and the founders seemed to park Jesus at the door when it came to government. I'll begrudgingly concede this point since we have separation of church and state and we don't want to end up as a Theocracy! Moving on...
Capitalism vs SocialismDiffen: Lets comment first before I get to the idea of Fascism. I think that the United States is more politically and ideologically divided than at any time in our History. Edited by Phat, .
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
They need to learn to keep up through personal initiative rather than handouts. I'm for social services such as food stamps and welfare, but it all shouldn't simply be a blank check. But I don't think the progressives understand money or how it is actually created.
My dad worked for 20 cents an hour and was as poor as anyone today. He had no choice. Do you really think if he were given government assistance it would have helped us? Teaching people that they are owed something and that they need to stand more for equality rather than personal initiative does nothing to help their culture in the long term. At best, they get to eat better for a year or two. Edited by Phat, : added sentence
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
You throw that word racist around like its a snarl word! You can't simply blame all of the economic problems of America on Racism and Discrimination. Its a cop-out.
Moving on... Now lets examine Conservatives vs Liberals. Diffen:************************************* (I need to look up Federalist vs Anti-Federalist) quote: I always talk about banking and the Central Banks. It appears that the Federalists(modern Democrats) favored strong Central Banks and Federal oversight of national collective money. Anti Federalists(modern day Republicans) favored local government to manage local money. There are pros and cons to both approaches, but it appears to me that Federalist could someday morph into Globalist. I could be wrong, however. I'm still chewing on this stuff! Now lets keep learning, shall we, phat? Edited by Phat, .
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
So I suppose in your world view Everybody gets a ribbon? Just for showing up? Just for being human? Does personal initiative mean NOTHING to you??
Now lets examine what this website says about a Democracy versus a Republic. I will readily admit that I don't always understand certain terms and concepts and that I need to study the meanings of words and concepts better. This thread is but a start, though doing this allows me to process my political views without swallowing everything I hear about in the media. In addition, it helps me to better define my beliefs and adjust them if necessary.
Diffen: I believe more in individualism than shared collectivism though I support limited socialism (such as Social Security, fire and police departments, local trash pickup and limited government services. I am also not opposed to helping the poor and less fortunate, though I oppose higher taxes. Despite opposing higher taxes, I see this as an inevitable result of the more challenging and indeed difficult economic times that we as a nation are moving towards. The United States tried isolationism before World War II and yet eventually could not be kept out of that war. The end of the war brought one of Ray Dalios cycles to a reset as the sun finally set on the British Empire and the Age of America ascended marked by Bretton Woods. Having now a better understanding of the terminology used in defining economic and political systems, I am going to examine Socialism versus Fascism in the next post, paying close attention to the division in US politics and the accusation by some of you that Fascism is a threat in modern day America. Before I do that, however, I wanted to highlight one other category that this website mentions.
Donald Trump versus Joe Biden(2020 platforms) And we all know that. My critics accuse me of being pro Trump, but I will argue that based on the definitions in this website breakdown of liberal and conservative ideologies that I am conservative leaning moderate and that I NEVER voted for Trump. I DID vote for Joe Biden, though I consider his plans for expanding government and raising taxes to be something that the United States can no longer afford. I wish that there were a rational alternative to Trump. (My friend mentions Mike Pompeo). I don't know too much about him, but I hear that he is pro-Trump, so the Republican party needs a major overhaul. Edited by Phat, .
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Finally we are at the purpose for this topic. Diffen is a website that basically compares any two concepts in context. It is a bit like a dictionary on steroids. As an example, I typed in equality vs freedom. Here is what they say: Equality vs Freedom
Comparing the definitions listed, I see pros and cons in both concepts, though I like the idea that a republic protects individual rights while a democracy is more about equal rights...even at the expense of a given individual. So lets cut to the chase...
Democracy vs Fascism Reading that, I see little if any indication that Conservatives are eventually going to become Fascist.
Fascism vs. Socialism Reading these comparisons, I don't get everyone's concern about Fascism in America. Note some key comparisons:
Diffen: From what I've read so far, I would agree with neither extreme, although I see Fascist elements in both political parties. One thing is clear. My great fear has always been a one world government, and in order for such a beast to ever exist, the path to such a government would be socialist rather than Fascist. I reaffirm that I am a conservative-leaning moderate and will remain in that position until further notice.
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
I see no overwhelming evidence that the people you mention are fascists. Thats your label. I see them as Republican Conservatives. Trump in particular often says outlandish things to grandstand and I would never vote him in, but your case for Fascism is weak. Do you have anything more substantive?
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
I'll admit that my statement has no actual data to back it up. I will argue, however, that our National Debt is growing and not shrinking. Do you see a plan to pay it down? How about even keeping within budget on the yearly deficit? Certain expenses are necessary, however...that much I will agree with. Both sides will argue about priorities and at this time I have no comment. All that I will say is that the United States has an appointment with reality and the hope is that they will arrange to pay their bills.
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
I don't even know what a Gish Gallop is...im not a Biblical Creationist. What I do know is that before I rush to reply to your posts, I try and read what you accuse me of being ignorant of and RESPOND rather than simply REACT. More than once i've put my foot in my mouth by REACTING rather than RESPONDING.
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Addressing your criticism specifically.
Theo writes: I specifically had the African Americans in mind. Of the many diverse cultures, it is their culture that is mentioned as needing compensation. What was that story out of San Francisco regarding reparations? I never did my homework. What do you mean by their culture? So lets go down the checklist.
Theo writes: Guilty.
You are still an idiot.Who is getting handouts? Nobody yet, apart from crooked politicians.
Who gets a blank check? Good question. Again, there is nobody specifically I was referring to. I was referring to governmental largess in general. It is always easy to spend public money. The question is how effectively is it being spent.
You have shown absolutely no understanding of finance and economics Bullshit. Start a topic. The floor needs wiping.
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Theo writes: My Father and Mother grew up as poor as your grandparents did. I threw 20 cents an hour out there...it very well could have been 30 cents an hour...I dunno. But I DO know that when my parents married, after the war, they had nothing except the clothes on their back. The poor white people, of which there are millions more, get a free pass because they are white? My Dad had but one thing. The training he received from the US Navy being a motor machinists mate 2nd class. He knew how to work on engines. And my Uncle taught him how to build houses. People are people. They should not be judged on the color of their skin, their last name, or what their ancestors endured. People should be judged on the content of their character. Ben Shapiro is often vilified not for being Jewish but for being Conservative. I may be guilty of some measure of racism and/or sexism. It is something I need to be aware of and try to rectify.(Swapped Ben out for a more relevant video that is working) Edited by Phat, .
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
I will admit that neither I nor my parents endured what many African Americans did.
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
It seems to me that you just want to fight.
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Phat writes: Ben Shapiro is vilified not for being Jewish but for being Conservative. And he is not racist, either.And why should he be vilified for being Jewish? He shouldnt. Should I be called out for being white? Privileged? "little"? We all are privileged if either we or our parents work hard and hustle.
Phat, referring to Shapiro writes:
And he is not racist, either.Theo writes: Are only Conservatives Racist? Yeah, he isAre only white people racist? Are only Puerto Ricans Racist? Stop generalizing. You throw the R word anywhere and everywhere it will stick, but then that's the behavior of much of the Left.
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Lets take ...oh the last 4 Republican presidents. Lets see..Trump,George W.Bush,HW Bush (were he still alive) and Reagan (were HE still alive).
Would you strafe all of them with a machine gun?
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
xongsmith writes: Well...I can understand you a bit better. You are not simply a Democrat. You are an Anti-Republican. If you were a Congressman or a Senator representing your political party (I'm assuming that you are a rather far left Democrat) you would *never* vote for anything that any Republican proposed. Am I right?
if i could hold and aim it, and the live TV was on and it was okay with the TV producers, then, yeah ... sometimes I just want to do that. it's a good thing I can't, right?
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