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Author | Topic: Testing The Financial Apologists | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0
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"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Theodoric writes: Ok. How about responding to my questions... Nixon said that he was defending the dollar against the speculators. Using Percy's source of Nixon's initial speech, the direct quote is Message 100Percy writes: If anyone's interested, here's the Nixon speech about international money speculators and going off the gold standard that he made on August 15, 1971: Address to the Nation Outlining a New Economic Policy: "The Challenge of Peace." But it now seems to me that Gold itself is being defended against speculators. The dollar took its place,(so they think) and we simply can't have any other country profiting more than ourselves. (which alas, China will eventually do. All of those "ghost cities" will fill up with middle-class Chinese while our aging bunch dies off!
Source and relevance. I don't have facts offhand to back this up except my belief that Gold is and was the only real money that is not debt-based and thus someone else's obligation. Note how much Gold is held by countries:
quoteIf a man has gold, and the value was allowed unfettered market speculation, he could profit from inflated currencies and also hide his true assets from government oversight. Theo writes: Because Gold holds its value much better than either currencies or blockchains. This is true of hard assets like commodities in general, though Gold is the backbone of Central Bank backing.
Explain how.To what end? If one buys small quantities of precious metals they slip below the radar and are not liable for capital gains. And I don't trust governments nor do I feel they should have that much authority over money.
Theo writes: Because if the government continues creating money out of thin air, they can't expect the public to pay it back. It simply is as unfair as a bail-in would be. Do you know the theory behind bail-ins?
Why? Alternative?Phat writes:
I realize that Money competes with money.Explain what this means. Relevance? It6 means that not all money is "public money". Some of it is (or should be) private money. Money that is not subject to government control in order to bail out the system through bailing in the assets of banks.
Phat writes:
And eventual global control over where any and all of the money is kept at any given moment.Theo writes: Let's just say I'm paranoid of being controlled. I'm honest apart from the fact that some things should be kept private and not part of a giant pool of money controlled by governments. How? By who? The big them? Another thing that people don't seem to believe is that Gold still backs fiat money indirectly and will do so until the banks get rid of their holdings...in which case it will become a relic of the past. A 5000-year track record is nothing to dismiss so lightly, however.Edited by Phat, : corrected a sentence I said...in context "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Theodoric writes: By and large you are right. Fiat Currencies are much more stable...largely because they are controlled by the Central Bank. Looking up a few sources I found a rational comparison list:
Seems to be another major crypto crash today. Funny how we don't have to worry about that with fiat currencies.Fiat Money: Advantages and Disadvantages First the advantages:
Now for the disadvantages:
Personally, I feel that the United States has "printed" more money than they should have. Other nations have done the same thing, however. Perhaps this argument can be hypothetically settled by either an optimist or a pessimist. How trustworthy is our government?"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
It just so happens that this argument....wrritten by whosoever....puddentame for all I care...is very similar to one I would make. In my own words, Fiat Currency is backed by the government and is as stable as the government is.
"printing excessive money" which is a misnomer since money never gets printed in such large amounts...it gets "created into existence" as an added ledger on a balance sheet. I argue that this type of financial strategy leaves the United States very vulnerable should the world lose trust in the dollar system. jar used to always say succinctly that "the bill *will* get paid" but neither you nor I want to be responsible for a bill in the many trillions of dollars. Of course every administration has its political projects that simply must be paid, be they green new deals or be they tax breaks for the captains of industry. Personally, I think we got rid of reliance on oil and natural gas far too early. The rest of the world is using it as carefree as ever, and even if the United States were able to go green (net zero and all that) within twenty years, the planet is gonna go down as far as sustaining humans and their grand schemes. Give it 80 years. And I hate being so negative, but it irritates me why the US is the sacred cow at the expense of our hard-working people. I think that the whole planet needs to make sacrifices equally. Tell that to the CCP! So what does this have to do with fiat money you may ask? It's all about stability. Is the US stable? Does our government care if they anger the working class? Are they creating inflation in effect to "pay the bill"?"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
(Argument redirected from the weather topic Message 34 )
Daniella Cambone works for Stansberry Research. She is a delightful host and has some great interviews with people who actually work in the financial industry and who are (or appear to be) better informed at global financial trends than are the average peanut gallery member who has to actually pay for their own financial advice and advisor and who trusts Source over Content. In the case of these interviews, I trust Content over Source. Edited by Phat, . Edited by Phat, . Edited by Phat, .
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
So?
Listen, I don't agree with nor approve of this whole idea that the people back the money and that the money is in the hands of the governments by and for the people. The world as we know it is competitive before it is cooperative. That's human nature. This whole illusion that the West, representative of and backed by the US dollar is a unified force for democracy is a lie. We will fall. And don't blame the Republicans when it happens. Don't blame the rich. Look in the mirror.
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Racists and homophobes, eh? I suppose Porter is lumped in the same camp as Ray Dalio, who is rich and a libertarian. You and your extremist (not evidenced) view of Democracy and reality is both authoritarian and disgusting.
rant writes: Fuck me for having an opinion concerning the future reality of capitalism. All that you seem capable of doing is attacking my sources. I can easily attack yours as well. Your fucked up senile old man of a president can no more build back better than he can understand that the economy of his nation is about to implode. You narrow-minded extremists want to tax the (far right conservative) rich and hold their wallets to the fire, but the fire will end up consuming each one of you and every damn thing you own. And you are too stupid to see it. On the plus side, my inner echo chamber actually approved of Reviewopedia. Why?Here is what it says about another one of my favorites, Jim Rickards. Jim Richards reviewopedia: Lest we forget, there is feedback on reviewopedia itself! It looks to be peer reviewed and reputable.
Reviewopedia Edited by Phat, .
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Theo writes: Fair enough. At least you are honest. You wear your balls on your sleeve. I demand evidence. I demand reputable sources. Not charlatans fleecing the rubes.I will put my sources and evidence against the crap you throw against the wall any day. BTW I edited my post 132. Edited by Phat, : added last sentence
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Theo writes: I dont have anything yet, but I will mention the top holders of gold as being Central Banks and the IMF. Global debt is itself a bubble. There will be a reset. As jar used to always say, "the bill will get paid". It may seem silly to have a dollar backed by gold but it is even sillier to imagine the trust of the public at large being stable.
So present a proposal to have the US dollar backed by gold reserves.Seems silly and not possible, but go ahead and tell us how it would be done.
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
You could take 50% of the wealth from the Forbes 400 and barely make a dent in the national debt. That's what irritates me....this huge debt. And it's Democrats as well as Republicans that have created that debt.
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
How are you going to tax them? They have legal loopholes. Fair is not the issue. I think its unfair for the middle class to get wiped out simply to help the poor since the rich won't do it if thats what you mean.
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Tangle writes: Tax them all you want. You still will have an unpayable National Debt. A tax increase for the wealthy wont solve the fiscal problems that a Democratically appointed Federal Reserve has caused. The Democrats will get rightly blamed for the next economic crash. So you think it's ok for the super wealthy to pay no tax? Raising taxes wont prevent this crises. We lied to ourselves when we thought that fiat currencies were a good idea. Don't listen to me. Ask your revered financial experts. The buck stops with them.The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022 We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
tangle writes: OK its not fair. My point, however, is that taxing the rich will not and never has been able to fix Democratically created problems. The problem in my mind is that idealogues thought that money could be backed only by the people (globally, perhaps?) and that we would all finally embrace and agree on a kum-ba-yah platform that helps every widow, takes care of every old person, educates every child and keeps *all* of us healthy and allows thieves free reign over the retailers. Poor darlings! Those mean Republicans are to blame! I'd like to you to say that you don't think it's fair that Trump pays less tax than pretty much anyone in America, including a store supervisor. *sheesh, give me a break!* The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022 We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Phat writes: Tax them all you want. You still will have an unpayable National Debt. Tangle writes: I'm all for that. One of my best friends, politically Democratic and moderately liberal, says that he wouldnt mind being taxed more if it would help the country-at-large. You just can't bring yourself to say that people - whoever they are - should pay their fair share of tax can you? You don't actually want a fair society, a Christian society, where people all chip in for the common good at all do you? The problem is that we are a secular society (not a problem in itself) that has other spirits running the place other than the Holy one. (But of course you call such talk madness.
Phat writes: A tax increase for the wealthy won't solve the fiscal problems that a Democratically appointed Federal Reserve has caused. Tangle writes: This is what baffles me about you. You claim to have some knowledge and insight into the financial system and how it works, but you seem oblivious to the failure of fiat currencies backed by nothing except the people.
I couldn't care less about the crap that you're obsessing about today, the point is to imagine a fair system and implement it. After that, you might find that other things become possible too. Tangle writes: I agree. But we can't go on wrestling in a burning house. ...the point is to imagine a fair system and implement it.The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022 We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
See my other topic with this same subheading.
BTW the US taking on debt at .5% or lower interest is now being shown to be brilliant. It is not brilliant. It is madness in a play performed by idiots imagining themselves to be creators.The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022 We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
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