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Author Topic:   Testing The Financial Apologists
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4503
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.5


(2)
Message 42 of 582 (895935)
07-26-2022 11:04 AM


A couple questions
What are financial apologists? What does this even mean?
Message 4
Through the recent sanctions against Russia, the whole world got a glimpse as to how the US Dollar is being "weaponized".
Can you explain how the dollar is being "weaponized?"
This is also why the precious metals are being suppressed in some way, allowing for a stronger dollar.
How are precious metals being suppressed, and how does that make the dollar "stronger" and does that mean you can buy more with a dollar or less?

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4503
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.5


(1)
Message 53 of 582 (896045)
07-30-2022 11:29 AM
Reply to: Message 51 by Phat
07-29-2022 3:20 PM


Re: Attempting to explain my understanding without a video
What irritates me about jar and the rest of you Democrats, in particular, is that you don't seem to want to fight this.
How would you suggest we fight this? Spend more, borrow more, or save more? Oh, I know, tax cuts for the ultra wealthy and higher taxes for the middle class while you Republicans claim it's a tax cut!

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Phat, posted 07-29-2022 3:20 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by Phat, posted 07-30-2022 2:44 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4503
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.5


(3)
Message 56 of 582 (896068)
07-30-2022 7:09 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by Phat
07-30-2022 2:44 PM


Re: Attempting to explain my understanding without a video
Why on earth would I want higher taxes for the middle class,
Well the guys you listen to and support are always trying to lower taxes on the wealthy, them. And every single time they do that the taxes on the middle class and poor increase. Trump's tax cut expired for the non-wealthy after just a year or 2. Same thing with Bush's and Reagan's.
Phat writes:
Tanypteryx writes:
How would you suggest we fight this? Spend more, borrow more, or save more?
Honestly I think we are checkmated. There is no way to pay it back.
Wait, you said:
quote
What irritates me about jar and the rest of you Democrats, in particular, is that you don't seem to want to fight this.
  —Phat
Implying that you had a fight strategy to make a positive change, and when I asked you what your fight strategy is it turns out it was empty rhetoric.
But what you really wanted was an opportunity to take a cheap shot at the Democrats who oppose your fight strategy, that you pretended to have.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Phat, posted 07-30-2022 2:44 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by Phat, posted 08-01-2022 11:41 AM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4503
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.5


(5)
Message 63 of 582 (896141)
08-01-2022 1:59 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by Phat
08-01-2022 11:41 AM


Re: Attempting to explain my understanding without a video
Thanks for responding.
They all claim to be massive buyers of Gold, Uranium, Lithium, and Rare Earth Mineral stocks.
Well, if they are really wealthy, they can afford to gamble.
Thus, what they have in common is that they are trying to convince people to abandon the dollar. If what they say is true and the dollar hyperinflates or collapses, their investments in precious metals will indeed skyrocket.
I guess people would have no other option than to abandon the dollar if it hyperinflates or collapses.
So how are they proposing to capitalize on these skyrocketed speculations in precious metals? What currency will they take in exchange for their precious metals?
If the dollar hyperinflates or collapses, do you think the global economy and global currencies are going to just cruise along steadily increasing in value?
The U.S. is the largest national economy and I feel fairly certain that if it collapses, the world economy will also, and those guys with the precious metals that intentionally and publicly tried to make it happen will be lucky to survive, let alone profit from their metals.
On a planet with 8 billion people consuming more resources than they produce, the collapse of national economies will cause millions of people to die and will also cause civil wars as well as international wars.
Maybe you have noticed that governments in the hottest regions of the planet are losing their abilities to serve the basic needs of their populations? Climate change coupled with exploding populations are already causing mass migrations, because agricultural systems are failing to increase production rapidly enough to feed the people and forests are cleared to raise crops for export which depletes the soil and contaminates the river systems.
Economic growth always has costs or sacrifices and they are always passed on to the poorest members of the society, so the rest of us don't have to look at it, this is how humans have organized our societies for the last 6000 years.
So what I meant when I said that *you Democrats* won't fight this, I think what I was implying is that you are on the side that wants to save the dollar and continue suppressing speculation in the hard assets.
OK, I don't actually know what the sides are here. I have no idea how I as an individual or how society could act to destroy the dollar or save the dollar. And I don't know why or how anyone would suppress or encourage speculation in hard assets.
When you say "continue suppressing speculation", how is that being done? As far as I can tell, anyone with enough wealth can speculate all they want.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by Phat, posted 08-01-2022 11:41 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by Phat, posted 08-01-2022 3:30 PM Tanypteryx has not replied
 Message 66 by Phat, posted 08-01-2022 3:38 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4503
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.5


(2)
Message 68 of 582 (896146)
08-01-2022 5:44 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by Phat
08-01-2022 3:18 PM


Re: Attempting to explain my understanding without a video
The fact that you see nothing threatening to the US dollar-based global system is in my opinion walking with blinders on.
I still don't have a clue what you think the threat is and what we should do to react or change the feared outcome.
The main reason it stays on top is that there is nothing yet any better.
What specific characteristics do you think would make a currency better than the U.S. dollar for global trade?
I'm just now more skeptical as to whether they have my interests at heart (they likely don't) and whether their information is at least partly true.
Really? You think they have a pawn's interests at heart? So their videos are actually public service announcements?
Ask yourself, are any real economists and market experts also saying what they are saying? It really seems like these guys are sowing panic and fear, because the resulting chaos creates the conditions that that they have figured out how to profit from.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by Phat, posted 08-01-2022 3:18 PM Phat has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4503
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.5


(1)
Message 86 of 582 (896226)
08-03-2022 11:30 AM
Reply to: Message 83 by Phat
08-03-2022 10:54 AM


Re: Attempting to explain my understanding without a video
and also hide his true assets from government oversight...which to me is fair.
Yeah, I've always thought it was unfair for the government to look into the assets of gangsters and the mafia, and especially conmen and fraudsters.
And I don't trust governments nor do I feel they should have that much authority over money.
Like I always say, "I'd rather trust a conman with my money than MY government."
This whole idea of digital money (an upcoming reality) gives the government(s) full authority over all money anywhere and everywhere.
I still use cash for the pot store and to pay the kid that works in my yard, but almost all of my transaction are already digital, with a debit card or a credit card. As soon as people started writing checks it was clear that the evils of digital money were just around the corner.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by Phat, posted 08-03-2022 10:54 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4503
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.5


(4)
Message 90 of 582 (896239)
08-03-2022 2:20 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by Phat
08-03-2022 1:21 PM


Re: Attempting to explain my understanding without a video
My government should not have the right to decide what's best for me while controlling my future. What do they expect the middle class to do? Give more up to help the poor become equal to us in wealth (which by necessity decreases our wealth) and take the city bus to work in the meantime?
No, the republican part of your government isn't giving your money to the poor, they are giving hundreds of billions to the oil companies in the form of subsidies and no taxes, because , ya know they're struggling.
he average Joe can't afford higher and higher taxes while at the same time waiting to afford an electric car while he fills up on 6.00 a gallon++ gasoline.
Well, they're going to have to afford it because they have to continue paying for the republican tax cuts.
And I know that I will never be able to afford an electric car.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by Phat, posted 08-03-2022 1:21 PM Phat has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4503
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.5


(2)
Message 116 of 582 (896768)
08-20-2022 2:45 PM
Reply to: Message 115 by nwr
08-20-2022 2:22 PM


Re: Fiat Money Pros & Cons
nwr writes:
Phat writes:
Personally, I think we got rid of reliance on oil and natural gas far too early.

When did we get rid of it? And how? Or is this just your imagination running wild?
Just looking at the size of oil and gas subsidies in the U.S. would indicate continuing reliance on oil and gas.
Phat and these dimwits he listens to all seem to think commodities have stable values and prices and that they don't fluctuate based on supply and demand. His understanding of finance and economics seems to be based entirely on fear, which is also his primary commodity.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by nwr, posted 08-20-2022 2:22 PM nwr has seen this message but not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4503
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.5


(3)
Message 124 of 582 (896783)
08-22-2022 11:08 AM
Reply to: Message 123 by Theodoric
08-22-2022 10:30 AM


Re: Fiat Money Pros & Cons
CCP = Crazy Conspiracy Phat.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by Theodoric, posted 08-22-2022 10:30 AM Theodoric has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4503
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 159 of 582 (904678)
01-04-2023 10:49 PM
Reply to: Message 151 by Phat
01-02-2023 9:10 AM


Re: The Global Debt Overshadows All Else
Phat writes:
but you seem oblivious to the failure of fiat currencies backed by nothing except the people.
Can you name any currency that failed that was backed by the people?
I think if you study some actual history you will find that fiat currencies that failed did so because the government that issued them was failing and that they had actually lost the backing of the people.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 151 by Phat, posted 01-02-2023 9:10 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4503
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.5


(3)
Message 169 of 582 (904695)
01-05-2023 1:00 PM
Reply to: Message 165 by Phat
01-05-2023 11:55 AM


Re: Mandatory Debt leads to an antichrist system
Phat writes:
Theo writes:
The government has had debt since before it was officially formed. Our economy is big enough to handle the debt load.
Then why is the debt growing exponentially? Heck, we cant even handle the deficeit! You do know the difference,don't you?
You make "exponential growth" sound like something that is extra dangerous or something. Exponential growth is the normal way to describe increases in all financial systems.
Do you understand that the national debt is in the form of bonds that are sold by the government and bought by investors who want a guaranteed return when they mature after a specified period of time.
The debt is not an unpaid, overdue bill that debtors are clambering for immediate payment, rather it is bonds that are owned by investors and paid off when they mature after 10, or 20, or 30 years. In the U.S., the Congress passes bills each year to authorize payments to service the bonds that mature that year.
The only time in recent years that we came close to defaulting on paying off those matured bonds were when REPUBLICANS voted against paying the bills for debts that were spent 10, 20, or 30 years in the past. Do you understand that?
Phat writes:
2 Cor 9:6-8 writes:
6 Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously. 7 Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.
Government should never mandate compulsory giving beyond reasonable taxation. And if the debt becomes unsustainable, we all should simply agree to wipe the slate clean rather than be under bondage to some socialist "humanitarian" bill.
Why are you equating religious tithing with taxes paid to the government to provide services to all the citizens? You clearly don't think YOU or the wealthy should pay your fair shares for the benefits you receive by living in a civilized country.
I have yet to see you complaining about the trillions of dollars that were added to the debt just to give the 1% a tax cut. This was direct spending by the Trump administration that ONLY BENEFITTED TH ULTRA WEALTHY AND NO ONE ELSE! Everyone else has to pay the rich people just for being fucking rich!!!!
You Fucking Idiot!

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by Phat, posted 01-05-2023 11:55 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 172 by Phat, posted 01-05-2023 2:07 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4503
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.5


(2)
Message 176 of 582 (904704)
01-05-2023 3:12 PM
Reply to: Message 172 by Phat
01-05-2023 2:07 PM


Re: Mandatory Debt leads to an antichrist system
Phat writes:
Damselfly writes:
Why are you equating religious tithing with taxes paid to the government to provide services to all the citizens? You clearly don't think YOU or the wealthy should pay your fair shares for the benefits you receive by living in a civilized country.
To start with, define "fair share". So if a guy at the end of the block saved up a million dollars he has to pay more than the rest of us just to fix the potholes in the street?
Tax rate is set in laws passed by Congress. Fair share would be to tax everyone at the same rate and to count all increase of wealth as taxable income. No tax breaks, no loopholes. IMO progressive tax rates are fair because they make the wealthy pay extra for the extra influence and benefit from government services that their wealth affords them. Tax income, not savings.
Phat writes:
Tanypteryx writes:
The debt is not an unpaid, overdue bill that debtors are clambering for immediate payment, rather it is bonds that are owned by investors and paid off when they mature after 10, or 20, or 30 years. In the U.S., the Congress passes bills each year to authorize payments to service the bonds that mature that year.
What guarantee do we have that the bonds will always be worth more?
The issuer (in this case the U.S. government) guarantees the interest rate on the bonds, it's a contract. If the issuer defaults on the payment their credit rating drops and investors will not buy new bonds. Performance of the issuer determines future success at issuing bonds. For example look up the Whoops Bond Default: The Washington Public Power Supply System (WPPSS), which was nicknamed Whoops, was the largest municipal bond default in history.
Phat writes:
Tanypteryx writes:
Exponential growth is the normal way to describe increases in all financial systems.
Well, we *do* know that global population is increasing, while resources are not. We do know that the global debt is increasing and has not gone backwards ever. So again, in a fiat money system where the money is magically assigned a value by the public-at-large, do we imagine (fantasize) that exponential growth is the norm? Are we legends in our own minds?
I have no idea what the relevance of population growth is to this discussion of debt.
Phat writes:
We do know that the global debt is increasing and has not gone backwards ever.
So? The global financial systems seem to be functioning. Global financial systems seem to measures of productivity as well as debt. You don't seem to realize that global means limited to the closed system of this single planet. Debt for the whole planet can never exceed the productivity and resources of the whole planet.
Phat writes:
So again, in a fiat money system where the money is magically assigned a value by the public-at-large, do we imagine (fantasize) that exponential growth is the norm?
Yes, financial growth is exponential. Do you have some other way to mathematically describe normal financial growth?
I don't see how magic is involved with determining the prices of things that people buy. Have you ever heard of supply and demand?
Are we legends in our own minds?
I have no clue what's going on in your mind.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 172 by Phat, posted 01-05-2023 2:07 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4503
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.5


(2)
Message 180 of 582 (909165)
03-28-2023 7:48 PM
Reply to: Message 179 by Phat
03-28-2023 7:25 PM


Re: The Debt: 3 Months Later
Sometimes I think that the progressives actually want this debt tied to the public-at-large and want to make sure there is no way to get out of it.
What "way out of it" are you talking about? The debt is bonds that have been sold and that will pay the holder a return plus interest when mature. Some tax money goes to service that interest every year from the taxes paid by all the taxpayers. If you live in the U.S. and pay federal taxes then some of that giant pool of money services the debt. The bonds don't all mature at once.
The conservatives, by contrast, want to lay the blame on the government.
And the government is still the people, people are after all the ones who pay taxes.
The conservatives have never lowered the debt or the deficit, so stop fucking pretending that the conservatives have ever been fiscally competent.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 179 by Phat, posted 03-28-2023 7:25 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 181 by Phat, posted 03-28-2023 7:57 PM Tanypteryx has replied
 Message 182 by Theodoric, posted 03-28-2023 7:58 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4503
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 183 of 582 (909168)
03-28-2023 8:07 PM
Reply to: Message 181 by Phat
03-28-2023 7:57 PM


Re: The Debt: 3 Months Later
There is no way to stop inflation in todays world. It will slowly chew all of our incomes up.
That's because inflation is global right now due to shocks to the global economy by the Covid pandemic, but the actions by the Fed has kept inflation much lower here than in many other countries.
You still haven't answered my question:
Tanypteryx writes:
Phat writes:
Sometimes I think that the progressives actually want this debt tied to the public-at-large and want to make sure there is no way to get out of it.
What "way out of it" are you talking about?

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 181 by Phat, posted 03-28-2023 7:57 PM Phat has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4503
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 184 of 582 (909169)
03-28-2023 8:13 PM
Reply to: Message 182 by Theodoric
03-28-2023 7:58 PM


Re: The Debt: 3 Months Later
The idiot still has no idea how the economy, financial markets and the government work. You would think with all of his whining, bitching and misinformation he would.have learned something.
Yeah, I agree!
Given what he's said here about his personal finances, I'm starting to doubt that his income is high enough to pay any federal income tax, so all his whining and bitching is phony.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 182 by Theodoric, posted 03-28-2023 7:58 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 185 by Theodoric, posted 03-28-2023 8:22 PM Tanypteryx has seen this message but not replied
 Message 191 by Phat, posted 04-01-2023 3:20 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
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