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Author | Topic: Who & what are the demons ? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
The best spiritual defense is a good spiritual offense? One sure way to wage effective spiritual war is to be intentional and patient. When is Demon-Day? Are we invading NormanDemon or the Pas Demon Calais?
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
I don't think altruism is our "spiritual nature". Anything we call a "spiritual nature" is just an offshoot of our "carnal nature". Altruism evolved because it's good for the group and what's good for the group is good for the individual. There can be conflict between what's good for me now and what's good for the group in the long run but it's silly to call that "spiritual warfare" or to bring "demons" into it.
The battle is between our carnal nature(what we like to do in that it feels good and is often selfish) and our spiritual nature(altruistic, regarding others better than ourselves)
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
Yes, that's what evidence means.
If your logic is correct, it would necessarily follow that everyone would have evidence and the entire world would see the obvious truth. Phat writes:
Chapter and verse?
Yet scripture tells us that a minority will believe and a majority will scoff. Phat writes:
What do you mean by "yet"? You sound as if atheism was a bad thing.
I would argue that you refuse to allow any belief to color your conclusions---which may be a wise approach yet in many cases...including yours...leads to atheism. Phat writes:
How can you draw good conclusions from subjective data?
Getting back to demons, however...I have seen enough subjective experiences to tentatively conclude they are real.
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
We know. Every fundamentalist used to be an atheist.
Demons do affect atheists. Then they stop being atheists. Happens a lot.
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Since there's a strong correlation with the local religion - children in North America don't spontaneously start believing in Odin or Ganesha - so it definitely seems to be learned behaviour. I suppose it's possible that they have an innate belief in "something" like gods or leprechauns and that innate belief might be imprinted with the local religion.
Does everyone automatically start out as an atheist or is that something requiring mindful decisions?
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
That's self-serving, isn't it? You want your God to be loving and protecting but you still believe in malicious demons? Why doesn't your God protect us from them?
I don't believe that you will be sent to hell or have a more troubled life simply due to your calm and patient questioning and logical approach.
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
But I don't need to deal with it. Whether I deal with it or not, the outcome is exactly the same.
He provides a way out. What He wont do is allow the realm of Spirit and Supernatural to cease to exist simply because YOU dont want to deal with it. Phat writes:
It already has.
The Universe wont marry you nor will evidence. Phat writes:
Paranoia is a recognized mental aberration, you know. Once the liberal thought police are able to label all belief as a mental aberration, proselytizing can be effectively banned and the antichrist can effectively step on stage and lead us all into a bright secular evidence based future."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Paranoia is not about not wanting something to exist. It's about thinking something is out to get you when there's no evidence that it is.
ringo writes:
Hey, I agree! I dont want the antichrist to exist. I dont want there to be demons nor do I want to have any or have to deal with them. Paranoia is a recognized mental aberration, you know. Phat writes:
Those things have happened throughout history. They have nothing to do with any apolcalypse and certainly nothing to do with demons.
As in the apocalyptic scenario, we see displacement of global populations, potential wars and rumors of wars, famine disease and cold love among many being quite possible. Phat writes:
We might not survive.
How strong will we as a species have to be to survive these times and challenges? Phat writes:
No it won't. "The demons" don't exist. Will we all cooperate and get past the challenge together or will we fight--and die? The answer to this will also be the answer to whether the demons won or not."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
You mean the "dusty old book" that you reject when it's convenient?
The only "evidence" we have about demons is found in scripture. Phat writes:
Well, YOU are the one who rejects scripture.
Of course your arguments attempt to neuter scripture as being an impotent story... Phat writes:
What? ... and that it is in no way equal to the words defining the evidence of the scientific methodology of definition. Of course the Bible is NOT equal to scientific methodology, if that's what you're getting at.
Phat writes:
That's what I keep telling you.
It does not take Rocket Science to interpret the scripture. Phat writes:
Nonsense. "We" includes Christians. If "we" become extinct, it will be because Jesus and every other God failed to save us. We will either exist in eternity with Jesus and the Holy Spirit or we wont exist at all, as you suggest."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
Yes. What do you expect me to do? Deny the reality of my experience pending objective evidence? The only honest explanation for your experiences is that you can't explain them.
Phat writes:
It took centuries to figure out that Newton was wrong (incomplete). I could be in for a long wait."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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