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Author Topic:   Who & what are the demons ?
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1525 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 156 of 349 (671634)
08-28-2012 3:32 PM
Reply to: Message 154 by Straggler
08-28-2012 7:24 AM


Re: Wrongness vs realness
I believe that demons are fictional entities invented by humans rather than real entities that exist outside of the human mind.
Are we getting back to the supernatural is not real because it can not be known. And if it could be known then science could study it.
But then......it would not be super natural any more.
Bahhhahhhaawwaaa hahaha ha!!!!
What if the man on the street says a demon is as a demon does?
Oh wait.... I got it, demons exist to those who believe in them. However, they are products of the human mind and exist as fiction. But for the average man on the street describing a demon he may not be able to distinguish a super natural demon from a natural one.
So a crazy person acting like a demon is really just a crazy person acting like a demon. Unless one believes that a demon acts like a crazy person who is possessed. But the moment one cast a doubt as to the supernatural evil spirit demon, then it is merely a matter of doubt rather than some empirical evidence that the person who is acting like a demon is not infact a demon.
Academia.edu

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 154 by Straggler, posted 08-28-2012 7:24 AM Straggler has replied

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 Message 157 by Straggler, posted 08-28-2012 5:02 PM 1.61803 has replied

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1525 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 158 of 349 (671639)
08-28-2012 5:20 PM
Reply to: Message 157 by Straggler
08-28-2012 5:02 PM


Re: Wrongness vs realness
This is even more off-topic than the rest of your post. Do you believe that demons exist and if so who or what do you believe they are?
No I believe we are in agreement that demons are superstitions. But they can be real to those who ascribe to their existence.

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 157 by Straggler, posted 08-28-2012 5:02 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 159 by Straggler, posted 08-28-2012 5:23 PM 1.61803 has replied
 Message 165 by ringo, posted 08-29-2012 12:13 PM 1.61803 has seen this message but not replied

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1525 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


(1)
Message 160 of 349 (671644)
08-28-2012 5:46 PM
Reply to: Message 159 by Straggler
08-28-2012 5:23 PM


Re: Wrongness vs realness
Hi Straggler, the point of my link was to show how frame of reference can dictate what we otherwise perceive is real.
Someone once said that Romeo and Juliet are fiction, but that does not mean the story does not say something real about love.
Santa Claus is real. If you persist no Minced pies for you on Christmas.
Obama is not the anti-Christ.
That would be Mitt and his demon minion Paul Ryan.

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 159 by Straggler, posted 08-28-2012 5:23 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 162 by Straggler, posted 08-29-2012 5:32 AM 1.61803 has replied

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1525 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 164 of 349 (671681)
08-29-2012 10:35 AM
Reply to: Message 162 by Straggler
08-29-2012 5:32 AM


Re: Wrongness vs realness
The picture is a optical illusion. It is not moving, that is how human brains are wired.
How many times have you had a dream that was perceived as reality? Could you distinguish what was a dream and what was not?
....how do you know that those who do perceive Obama to be the anti-Christ are in fact wrong?
I can not KNOW. I can however be skeptical.
We believe the things we do because we choose to believe them imo.

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by Straggler, posted 08-29-2012 5:32 AM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 166 by Straggler, posted 08-29-2012 12:42 PM 1.61803 has replied

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1525 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 169 of 349 (671765)
08-30-2012 9:33 AM
Reply to: Message 166 by Straggler
08-29-2012 12:42 PM


Re: Wrongness vs realness
Straggerl writes:
How do you know this?
The same way you do.
Straggler writes:
But I don't believe that these things were real rather than just dreamt.
Indeed, but I ask again how do you know whilst dreaming that you are dreaming and not participating in reality?
Can you give an example of something we can know?
1+1=2
Is not what is objectively real and what is not a rather important factor here?
Yes, my only point was humans have for ages have been grappling with what is knowlege, and how do we obtain it. What is truth and how do we distinguish it? A justified true belief?
What if the universe is actually a2D projection giving rise to the illusion of what humans call reality? Then that would be reality, illusory or not. If one can not distinquish a thing from another is there a difference?

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by Straggler, posted 08-29-2012 12:42 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 170 by Straggler, posted 08-30-2012 9:47 AM 1.61803 has replied

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1525 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 171 of 349 (671768)
08-30-2012 10:20 AM
Reply to: Message 170 by Straggler
08-30-2012 9:47 AM


Re: Wrongness vs realness
Which is.....?
My experience.
How do you know that the image isn't really moving?
My experience.
Can you give a non-mathematical example of something we can know?
Congito ergo sum.
Where do you think the proposed existence of demons comes in on that "scale" and why..
There are folks who believe a great number of things that may or may not exist such as demons. Most of which I believe are based on superstition and culture. A imaginary demon is a manifestation of religious evil being played out. Much like a woman who drowns her children because a devil or demon told her to, the evil of her deeds are very real imo. She is at that moment a personification of unjustified evil. The mother rationalizes her actions as being possessed and therefore not culpable, and others being unable to make sense of the heinous act, attribute it to evil. Is a demon responsible? My opinion is no, but to others perhaps the sickness in her mind is a metaphor for demon snd how they make sense of the world.

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by Straggler, posted 08-30-2012 9:47 AM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 178 by Straggler, posted 09-04-2012 1:06 PM 1.61803 has replied

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1525 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 182 of 349 (672269)
09-05-2012 12:25 PM
Reply to: Message 178 by Straggler
09-04-2012 1:06 PM


Re: Wrongness vs realness
for reasons that have everything to do with human psychology and nothing to do with the actual existence of real demons.
I agree. But again realness is in the eye of the beholder.

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 178 by Straggler, posted 09-04-2012 1:06 PM Straggler has not replied

  
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