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Author Topic:   Does ID follow the scientific method?
Straggler
Member (Idle past 96 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 34 of 121 (591963)
11-17-2010 7:05 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Dawn Bertot
11-16-2010 10:51 PM


Hypotheses
DB writes:
Again, no hypothesis, just a method to determine if ID is a possibility, derived from a scientific approach.
If you want to claim that ID is able to be derived from the scientific method then we must first be abe to derive an ID hypothesis that is falsifiable.
In order to do that I suspect we will first need objective criteria in place to determine whether or not something has been designed.
I think this will be the first of numerous stumbling blocks.
DB writes:
We will be looking at IDs methods and SMs methods.
Methods of doing what exactly?
Scientific methods involve constructing hypotheses and testing them in order to construct reliable theories. Yes?
If we cannot construct a testable ID hypothesis then I don't see how we can take the next step of testing it.
DB writes:
Now, what is off limits I believe, is the conclusions of Macro-evolution and design itself, because both are conclusions, as ICANT was trying to demonstrate in the other thread.
OK. But without a testable hypothesis I am not sure where it is you want to start from?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Dawn Bertot, posted 11-16-2010 10:51 PM Dawn Bertot has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by Dawn Bertot, posted 11-18-2010 2:03 AM Straggler has replied

Straggler
Member (Idle past 96 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


(1)
Message 68 of 121 (592205)
11-19-2010 6:17 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by Dawn Bertot
11-18-2010 2:03 AM


Re: Hypotheses
DB writes:
I am claiming that the IDM is the same as used by the SM. It follows the same logical steps to derive its tenets or conclusions.
OK. The scientific method requires you to construct a hypothesis that can be tested.
DB writes:
This is not about hypothesis, but mechanichs and application of methods
But the hypothesis is part of the scientific method. How can you be following the scientific method if your methods are hypothesis-free?
DB writes:
Theories about what?
Nature. And how nature behaves.
DB writes:
The methods you use to form your hypothesis, how things work presently and hypothesis about what might have have happened, as you call them theories
I think I see where your confusion lies. You are conflating theories and hypotheses.
If you want to present intelligent design as a hypothesis based on the observation that nature appears to be designed then fair enough. But the next step would be to construct this hypothesis in such a way that it can be tested and falsified. This is done by making falsifiable predictions which are the necessary logical consequences of your hypothesis being correct. Predictions which genuinely test your hypothesis (as opposed to generic or trivial conclusions that don't tell you anything not already known). This is the tricky part and the part you are missing.
But until you are able to construct and test ID in this manner it will never get off the ground as a theory by any scientific standard. The best you can say is that it is a rather speculative possibility (i.e. a hypothesis).
And given that the alternative explanation (i.e. evolution) has passed numerous such tests - ID is a hypothesis that nobody actually interested in finding the most evidentially supported theory is likely to pay much attention to.
But if IDists starts predicting and discovering new evidence as a direct consequence their hypothesis all that would have to change.
So my advice is to construct your ID hypothesis and start the process of discovery.........

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Dawn Bertot, posted 11-18-2010 2:03 AM Dawn Bertot has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by Dawn Bertot, posted 11-20-2010 2:23 AM Straggler has not replied

Straggler
Member (Idle past 96 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 93 of 121 (592316)
11-19-2010 1:41 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by Blue Jay
11-19-2010 12:54 PM


Re: One step would be to define what ID isn't
Good simple post.
I don't think that DB has got past step 1. As described far less succinctly than you in my last post to DB.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by Blue Jay, posted 11-19-2010 12:54 PM Blue Jay has not replied

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