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Author
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Topic: The evidence for design and a designer - AS OF 10/27, SUMMARY MESSAGES ONLY
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jar
Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 453 of 648 (588114)
10-22-2010 10:29 AM
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Reply to: Message 413 by dennis780
10-22-2010 5:08 AM
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Please stop saying Really, Really Stupid things.
How do you measure earth? Can't answer it? Hmm. Thats because it's stupid question. When you make statements like that all you accomplish is to show how utterly clueless you are about just about everything. There are many, many ways to measure the earth and anyone over about twelve should have the basics needed for most of the methods. You have been asked a real question yet you are so ignorant that you really don't know how to answer. Ignorance though can be cured and lead you out of the darkness of Satan and into to light of science. The smart thing for you to do would be to admit just how utterly ignorant you are and ask some of the wiser folk here to teach you.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 413 by dennis780, posted 10-22-2010 5:08 AM | | dennis780 has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 454 of 648 (588117)
10-22-2010 10:34 AM
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Reply to: Message 424 by dennis780
10-22-2010 5:43 AM
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dennis780 writes: snowflakes are very complex
Thats debatable, since snowflakes are nothing more than water molecules aligning themselves to maximize attractive, and minimize repulsive forces, and the shape of a snowflake is based on nothing more than temperature, humidity, and air currents.
DNA molecules also align themselves to maximize attractive and minimize repulsive forces and their shape is based on nothing but chemistry.
dennis780 writes: They do not perform any intelligent function, and only appear ordered because they have six sides, and the human brain interprets that as ordered.
The same is true of DNA. You're just begging the question by assuming "intelligent function".
"It appears that many of you turn to Hebrew to escape the English...." -- Joseppi
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 424 by dennis780, posted 10-22-2010 5:43 AM | | dennis780 has replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9201 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.2
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Source of number please
while most common estimates of the odds of generating one protein by unguided forces is one in 10130.
Please show where this comes form. Also, can you explain what tthe source is saying in your own words?
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
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Granny Magda
Member Posts: 2462 From: UK Joined: 11-12-2007 Member Rating: 3.8
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Message 456 of 648 (588123)
10-22-2010 10:56 AM
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Reply to: Message 408 by dennis780
10-22-2010 4:42 AM
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Hi Dennis,
So now we have gone from chemical origin being irrelevant (earlier in the thread), to DNA origin being irrelevant. Is the origin of anything relevant these days? Mmm. Your inability to read simple sentences in what is presumably your first language seems to be the problem here. I said that the odds were irrelevant, not the DNA. If you were able to understand a simple English sentence, you would realise this.
And if you don't, you don't. And at one point, we didn't. So by your own admittance, DNA does not exist. You see, this is the kind of rubbish that convinces me that you are too far out of your depth to be having this conversation. I really feel that you are wasting your time engaging in this discussion. You are never going to understand what is being said. You can't even read what is being said. And as for what you say yourself, it mostly consists of contemptible stupidity and ignorance;
{snowflakes contain} The same information as water No they don't!
{water} has no logical explanation of origin to this point. Yes it does!
I think you are missing the point of evolution. It explains lifes natural origins... No it doesn't! The really tragic thing here is that you actually seem to think that you are being clever when you say these things. You are not. All you are doing is demonstrating your own dismal lack of understanding and your vast wealth of ignorance. Mutate and Survive
"A curious aspect of the theory of evolution is that everybody thinks he understands it." - Jacques Monod
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 408 by dennis780, posted 10-22-2010 4:42 AM | | dennis780 has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 493 by dennis780, posted 10-22-2010 11:56 PM | | Granny Magda has replied |
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: 07-20-2006
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Because bacteria are so small, making migration not very practical, bacteria have a definite biological need to rapidly adapt to ever changing environments and food sources. The most prominent way that they appear to have been designed to do this, is through plasmid mutations. So it was fairly silly of the designer to forget to give most of them plasmids; which is why the huge majority of observed mutations do not in fact take place in plasmids. But what if they did? A plasmid is just a small chromosome. I do in fact know what droolingly stupid creationist blunder you're trying to make here, and the amusing thing is that you don't.
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Admin
Director Posts: 13043 From: EvC Forum Joined: 06-14-2002 Member Rating: 2.3
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Message 458 of 648 (588132)
10-22-2010 12:12 PM
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Topic Reminder
The Free For All forum is for the most part unmoderated, but we do ask that participants address the topic. Anyone who would like to discuss the evidence for design and a designer can stay. Those who would like to discuss the impossibility of evolution due to sheer unlikelihood should propose a new thread over at Proposed New Topics.
| -- | Percy | | | EvC Forum Director |
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AZPaul3
Member Posts: 8564 From: Phoenix Joined: 11-06-2006 Member Rating: 4.7
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Message 459 of 648 (588136)
10-22-2010 12:44 PM
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Reply to: Message 452 by Buzsaw
10-22-2010 10:13 AM
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Re: The Biblical Designer Did The Whole Enchilada
The illogical point he/she was making is that in order for me to justify my claim, shown points must be verified and undisputed by his/her ideological constituency here at EvC town. In other words they must be submitted for what amounts to peer review so their accuracy can be checked against known reality and the logic of the conclusions can be scrutinized? Well, ain't science a bummer! Fact is Buz Ol' Bean, all the evidence you think you and your fellow creationist/ID/designer advocates have ever provided has been shown to be erroneous, mis-interpretation, circular, or out-and-out lie. You and yours have shown us, science and the world absolutely nothing but the depths of stupidity you will stoop to make your fallacious sacred case. I don't blame you for being reluctant to re-hash the old false "evidence" you have provided in these forums. It must get old having your eyes gouged out and shoved down your throat so often.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 452 by Buzsaw, posted 10-22-2010 10:13 AM | | Buzsaw has not replied |
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Taq
Member Posts: 10085 Joined: 03-06-2009 Member Rating: 5.1
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Message 460 of 648 (588138)
10-22-2010 12:56 PM
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Reply to: Message 411 by dennis780
10-22-2010 4:50 AM
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Abiogenesis? What about it? Last I checked abiogenesis has chemistry as it's mechanism, not magic.
We both have difficulty explaining the beginning of life. After that, ID fits perfectly with what is observed today. What observation, if made, would not fit perfectly with ID? How does the nested hierarchy fit with ID? How does the pattern of orthologous ERV's among humans and other apes fit with ID? How do transitional fossils fit with ID? If you are going to claim that ID fits perfectly then you must show HOW it fits perfectly. Otherwise, your claims are quite hollow.
Even after Abiogenesis, your ToE has gaps so large it makes the grand canyon look like the crack in the sidewalk out front my house. What does this have to do with ID? Can ID stand on it's own or not?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 411 by dennis780, posted 10-22-2010 4:50 AM | | dennis780 has not replied |
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Taq
Member Posts: 10085 Joined: 03-06-2009 Member Rating: 5.1
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Message 461 of 648 (588139)
10-22-2010 12:58 PM
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Reply to: Message 414 by dennis780
10-22-2010 5:11 AM
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Evolution is a theory. Theories are not facts. Theories explain the facts. If you are going to criticize science perhaps you should learn how it works first.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 414 by dennis780, posted 10-22-2010 5:11 AM | | dennis780 has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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who saw evolution?
So far everyone who has looked. I have. And... It was confirmed by the geologists. It was confirmed by all the oil explorers. It was confirmed by all the paleontologists. It was confirmed by all the biologists. The fact of evolution is written in the very oil we burn, the coal we use, the food we eat, the building we build, the ground we walk on. Only those who are willfully blind do not see it. Now, since I answered your question, how about giving me one reason that even if there was some designer it is of any importance other than as an historical footnote or in the case of product liability suits.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 414 by dennis780, posted 10-22-2010 5:11 AM | | dennis780 has not replied |
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Taq
Member Posts: 10085 Joined: 03-06-2009 Member Rating: 5.1
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Hi Dennis, love the way you think. I just wanted to point out what one of our opponents will eventually do if they haven't already. That being that snowflakes are very complex, so are other crystals. Likewise certain patterns formed by weather in the soil of the arctic regions can appear very complex. Yet no one would attribute these complex structures to an intelligent designer. They can be explained through natural processes at work. What sets "designed" complexity apart from these kinds of structures, is purpose or (specificity). The purpose of snowflakes is to reflect heat back into space thereby cooling the Earth. They have specificity. We also observe that snowflakes gain this purpose through unintelligent mechanisms meaning that purpose can arise through unintelligent processes.
Now they trigger a recognition response from an independent experience, and the letters perform a specific function. Please show me how my avatar triggers a recognition response.
Likewise when we observe the DNA molecule, we see the nucleotides are arranged in specific patterns to form specific types of cell structures. There are 6 billion different arrangements of nucleotides that all produce humans. That is hardly specific.
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Taq
Member Posts: 10085 Joined: 03-06-2009 Member Rating: 5.1
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You make it sound like mutation drives life today and that all mutations help the organisms that obtain them. You couldn't be more wrong. 99.9% of all documented mutations are HARMFUL to the organism. You carry between 100 and 200 mutations not found in either parent. So which 200 genetic diseases are you suffering from?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 416 by dennis780, posted 10-22-2010 5:15 AM | | dennis780 has not replied |
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Taq
Member Posts: 10085 Joined: 03-06-2009 Member Rating: 5.1
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I think the question is, how did DNA originate? Can you point us to the ID research on this subject?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 418 by dennis780, posted 10-22-2010 5:20 AM | | dennis780 has not replied |
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Larni
Member Posts: 4000 From: Liverpool Joined: 09-16-2005
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I think the question is, how did DNA originate? Good question, but it does not mean goddidit though, does it?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 418 by dennis780, posted 10-22-2010 5:20 AM | | dennis780 has not replied |
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Larni
Member Posts: 4000 From: Liverpool Joined: 09-16-2005
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Because I have never seen any evidence that it has. To me, the very notion of "Out from the pool of goo, came me and you," is the real fairy tail here. This is the very essence of an argument from incredulity.
To the contrary, the evidence points much more clearly to an intelligent source being the cause of all life. You have produced no evidence thus far, should I stop holding my breath?
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