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Author | Topic: The evidence for design and a designer - AS OF 10/27, SUMMARY MESSAGES ONLY | |||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Buzsaw writes:
It isn't enough to just come to a conclusion. You need to show why your conclusion is better. That's why people are constantly asking IDists to do some experiments to verify their conclusions. You can't just piggyback on the data collected by scientists. You have to collect your own data if you want to be taken seriously. IDists observe and come to a different conlusion. Edited by ringo, : Spell7ing "It appears that many of you turn to Hebrew to escape the English...." -- Joseppi
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Panda Member (Idle past 3743 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: |
onifre writes: I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm doing it just to piss you off. It annoys me more that you are allowed to post under 2 different accounts. I will ask the moderators to merge your Onifre and Dawn Bertot accounts. Edited by Panda, : added quote
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onifre Member (Idle past 2981 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
I will ask the moderators to merge your Onifre and Dawn Bertot accounts. - Bertot wishes! Plus he couldn't handle the intense level of THC that would hit his vains if he and I merged as one. - Oni
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Dawn Bertot Member (Idle past 113 days) Posts: 3571 Joined: |
So, you are saying NO order happens on it's own and your designer has it's hands in every little aspect of everything? The droplet of water I mentioned: your designer did that too? This is an idiotic comment and not worthy of attention
I fear you are projecting your own inadequacies onto others, my dear boy. funny, I still dont have a test postulated for the eternality of matter. Think that will be coming anytime soon?
Go back and read what I posted. Take a gander at the circle of life. All natural and can be explained without the need for any designer. Look at a walnut seed. We can watch it from seed to sapling to tree. That is order, is it not? Was your designer there to make it grow? IF so, how do you know that? How can you prove it? No moron you cannot explain how the things of existence are here to begin with. Show me your scientific test that proves what. I dont need to go back and read what you restated in weaker fashion
Are you really asking for evidence that things happen naturally? Have you ever taken a nature hike? Have you ever looked at nature? WHERE IS YOUR DESIGNER????? NATURE happens naturally. The life we see EVERY DAY happens naturally: no mythical creatures necessary. Wow, it would be a real pleasure to have someone as simple as yourself in a in person public debate, it would be alot of fun. You cant even understand what i am asking for Dawn Bertot
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bluescat48 Member (Idle past 4220 days) Posts: 2347 From: United States Joined: |
You cant even understand what i am asking for Obviously, neither can anyone else. The topic is evidence for design and a designer. It is your topic, your idea and since you claim there is a designer, it is up to you to provide evidence, which thus far is lacking. There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002 Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969 Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008
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Dawn Bertot Member (Idle past 113 days) Posts: 3571 Joined: |
You need to show why your conclusion is better. this is comical. better than what? you have nothing except experiments with immediate material, the conclusion of which is nothing Can your precious science please give me a test that measures where the things came from to accomplish evolution Hooah, tells me to take a walk in the wood. Whats your test? dawn bertot Edited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.
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Dawn Bertot Member (Idle past 113 days) Posts: 3571 Joined: |
Try to keep up. Nobody cares about the "eternality of matter". Science only concerns itself with the matter that exists today and that existed in the observable past. Of course you dont, because if you are asked to answer a natural conclusion of your position, gets thrown in the same mix with everybody else. And oh heavens we cant have that Ringo, any theory dealing with physical realities has to concern itself with it origination point and its mechanism of origination Mine is obvious order and obvious design as a result of that order. WHAT IS YOURS? Dawn Bertot
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Dawn Bertot Member (Idle past 113 days) Posts: 3571 Joined: |
No one but you has ever even mentioned "the eternality of matter" whatever that even means. Its a natural conclusion of your position, genius. Its something that needs to be addressed. If I am required to show proof of my design, which is obvious order, what is your conclusion of your studies and how in this world do you demonstrate it. Would your claim be matter eternal or what? What would your choice be avoiding this very valid point wont help you Oh yeah before I forget, are you going to explain in detail the other possibilites outside the two, Im still waiting Dawn Bertot Edited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.
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Dawn Bertot Member (Idle past 113 days) Posts: 3571 Joined: |
All natural and can be explained without the need for any designer. Look at a walnut seed. We can watch it from seed to sapling to tree. Is that all ntural cereal or what? Where did the material that made it a seed come from and then beyond that Its not a matter of NEED for a designer ,it is a matter of what the evidence will allow and it strongly points to a design by a designer
Are you really asking for evidence that things happen naturally? Have you ever taken a nature hike? Have you ever looked at nature? WHERE IS YOUR DESIGNER????? NATURE happens naturally. The life we see EVERY DAY happens naturally: no mythical creatures necessary. So after all your bolstering and bluster about experiments, your recommendation is a walk in the park? How will my observations in the park tell what happened before Time zero, is there just more time to infinity, or did it just pop into existence. I need a test Dawn Bertot But more importantly, what test do you have for that. A stroll in the universe, perhaps
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Dawn Bertot writes:
Better than whatever it is that you want to replace. You haven't been very lucid about what you want to accomplish with this thread. First tell us what your idea is better than and then show us how it is better.
ringo writes:
better than what? You need to show why your conclusion is better. Dawn Bertot writes:
Knowing where matter came from doesn't help us understand how evolution works, so it may be interesting but it isn't particularly relevant. Can your precious science please give me a test that measures where the things came from to accomplish evolution "It appears that many of you turn to Hebrew to escape the English...." -- Joseppi
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Dawn Bertot Member (Idle past 113 days) Posts: 3571 Joined: |
We can evidence the unintelligent mechanisms that result in the final product. That is how. We can design experiments whereby these forces are demonstrated. But you cannot tell me how, when and where the unintelligent mechanism got thier start Obvious order and law is what I use to determine an origination point of those unintelligent mechanisms If yours is not, can you demonstrate matter eternal, OR HECK ANYTHING ETERNAL You need to follow the same rules you set out for me, OK? what is your test to determine why anything is here or where it came from Dawn Bertot Edited by Admin, : Fix quote.
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Dawn Bertot writes:
Nonsense. A physical reality like a car can be "dealt with" without knowing anything about the smelting of iron or the mining of iron or the geology of iron formations or the origin of iron atoms. A mechanic can formulate a theory of why an engine doesn't run without such extraneous details. The same is true for understanding the day-to-day workings of evolution. Ringo, any theory dealing with physical realities has to concern itself with it origination point and its mechanism of origination "It appears that many of you turn to Hebrew to escape the English...." -- Joseppi
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Dawn Bertot Member (Idle past 113 days) Posts: 3571 Joined: |
Knowing where matter came from doesn't help us understand how evolution works, so it may be interesting but it isn't particularly relevant. Who cares how evolution works, but answering questions about change (Evo), will lead eventually to its natural conclusion Do you see how easy it is to set you fellas on the run So you are saying, understanding design will help you understand how order works, BUT understanding where matter came from wont help you understand evolution.. Your kidding right? Please tell me you are kidding Ringo, try and stay focused. Its not a matter of INTERESTING, its a matter of logical deduction. If I am required to show how order mplies design, the certainly you would need to show that evo does not have a designer You can do this simply by doing a great scientific test, the kind that you brag about, to determine matters origination source You need to require of yourself, what you say I must demonstrate if knowing the initiation source of design is irrelevant, by any test, then showing how order leads to design is not necessary either Dawn Bertot Edited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.
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Dawn Bertot Member (Idle past 113 days) Posts: 3571 Joined: |
A physical reality like a car can be "dealt with" without knowing anything about the smelting of iron or the mining of iron or the geology of iron formations or the origin of iron atoms. Wow this is funny. Ringo, you are rquiring me to show how design is demonstrated by order and then you turn right around and say its not necessary for you t show evos origination source because it doesnt matter Ringo that is completely stupid Ringo if it doesnt matter, then order is enough to demonstrate design, because just like you observe evolution and its origin doesnt matter, I observe order without knowing its origination so does design matter to order or not? According to your reasoning it does not. It is evidence of itself, even by your admission and illustrations Geeesss Dawn Bertot
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Dawn Bertot writes:
We care about how evolution works because of its implications in agriculture, medicine, etc. Anything to do with the origins of the chemicals has much less practical value.
Who cares how evolution works, but answering questions about change (Evo), will lead eventually to its natural conclusion Dawn Bertot writes:
Nope. As others have told you, even if we did conclude that evolution had a designer, that information would be of little value. We care how it works, like we care how a car works.
If I am required to show how order mplies design, the certainly you would need to show that evo does not have a designer Dawn Bertot writes:
You have that backwards. We don't care as much about origins as we do about mechanics because the mechanics have useful applications. You, on the other hand, want to overturn the accepted paradigm, so you most certainly do have to show your work. if knowing the initiation source of design is irrelevant, by any test, then showing how order leads to design is not necessary either "It appears that many of you turn to Hebrew to escape the English...." -- Joseppi
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