God and the blind Tailors

Imposter? Jesus? Well for the obvious reasons. I am a Christian and think that 'Jesus' was the prophesied one.We know all the arguments eh? “Therefore the Lord Himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a Virgin shall conceive, and bear a Son, and shall call his name Immanuel,”*(Isaiah 7:14).In any case, the American Christians love for Israel even if you think is misplaced allowed her to begin to exist and has sustained her. Don't you think we have bigger fish to fry instead of creating strife and infighting within the ranks brother Brian?notes*......Immanuel means 'God is with us'.;{>
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So far so good! Sometimes the obvious is so difficult to recognize! A good example is EMC2. And like discoveries that seem so obvious when stated. We all worship the same God whether we know it or not! Oops there is another one! I corrected my statement to say that I consider my religion MORE (caps for emphasis only) correct, probabilities my dear fellow probabilities! Maybe the concept is not as simple as it first seems!Again for emphasis; I choose to think the attributes that I assign to God areMOREcorrect than others. Not that I am 100% sure that I am more correct. See? That does not change the fact that God remains the same regardless of what I think. So you see, I can only hope that my version is more correct. I think it makes perfect sense. BTW, where did I say I was a 'different zealot'? No, I think that I am a more enlightened rabid radicalized (in my love for Jesus) zealot than most, that’s all. Eh Gads! Paganism! Well maybe it does, but while it may smack it doesn't mean it is paganism. No not at all. You see I use a B.A.D. Some architects use C.A.D. but I use biblical assisted design when describing God. I describe my build version of God with scripture. Well forgive my bluntness but you when you claim that you can extrapolate so much with so little I am a bit suspicious ! I should hire you as a shrink, except that your diagnosis is wrong. I am simply a device for Jesus, and I am at a loss of how to describe my beliefs any other way. I think the problem is that some of the members are hungry for the Christians to be thrown to the lions, and its you guys that are making this a personal issue. I simply stated an idea. If you look at the progression from there anyone can see who begins extracting personal ”teeth”. I would like to know how YOU know when someone is pretending? I thought that was Gods job? Perhaps you might ought not to measure from your own cup? In any case thanks for your reply. At least 10% of this one was on topic and not personal. All time huh? Hmmm' Well maybe it happens sometimes but I am not concerned as my methods, my paradigm are free of such horrors...: }> Edited by RevCrossHugger, : No reason given.

I was wondering what your educational credentials are and what your beliefs are if any? If you would rather them remain private I understand.; {>

Sorry I should of used quote tags, yes Mr Brian yours. The reason I ask is because you challenged me to read the OT etc etc. even after I posted my history. I must inform you that to earn my station in life I have had to read the bible (which includes the OT) many times. I also am a professional speaker and of course occasionally preach.So I am curious why you seem to identify with a different faiths such as a Muslim or Palestinian etc etc...; {>

Not many scholars still doubt that the historical Jesus existed. I am sure you could find hold outs that believe otherwise but they are in the same category as those that think we really didn’t go to the moon.I found your last thought a bit amusing. If you think that Jesus was a failure one or two thousands of millions of saved people (Christians) would disagree. Jesus changed the world, thank God. I had to do that to get out of seminary, at least I have a paper that tells everyone that is the case. Maybe you should write the Dean at Milligan and tell him I am masquerading as a graduate of his school? Of course that would be slander. Well you can always go back to school.Therefore the Lord Himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a Virgin shall conceive, and bear a Son, and shall call his name Immanuel,”*(Isaiah 7:14). Well I am sorry if I don’t agree with your interpretation. I recognize that Jewish belief hasn’t considered Isaiah 7:14 as a messianic prophecy. Jewish scholars argue that its Christian misinterpretation. Why should I, a Christian give credence to a Jewish interpretation?

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And supported her State terrorism as she slaughtered thousands of innocent Palestinian men, women, and children.

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Of course there again that is your opinion. War is hell brother. If the Palestinian terrorists wouldn’t use the innocents as human shields there would be less collateral damage. I am sure you know one mans freedom fighter is another mans terrorist. That goes for nation states and governments as well. Think of a Hamas-led Palestinian government. Tell me seer how do I think? What smelly 'doo doo' that is ! Please, please don’t claim to know me, or have the ability to read minds, it’s silly. Perhaps if you tone down the rhetoric and the biased thinking we may be able establish a dialog, but I have been down this road before. Yes I will God (Jesus) willing. likewise.; {>Edited by RevCrossHugger, : No reason given.

Well I think everyone is fairly equal in intelligence and life experience is more important than schooling. I am sorry my entertainment value is lacking my friend, I suppose that I like to know who I am speaking with, and being new to this forum I know no one! Thanks for the vote of confidence and I will attempt to do more answering and less questioning. We are really in the foreplay aspect of debate now. What is it exactly that Brian has lobbed that I should reply to ? The question of if a historical Jesus existed?Thanks for your comments.; }>Edited by RevCrossHugger, : No reason given.Edited by RevCrossHugger, : No reason given.

Brian, thanks for providing your particulars! You are indeed fully qualified to critique my fantastic claims.Ah ~Its time for work, good thing I am sitting in my work chair. I will reply ASAP my friend. Sorry for my abrasive nature and temper, its one reason that I don't teach or preach as a full time job: {>

Hmm’ I had misplaced my reading glasses. No wonder it made no sense! Ok,the religion is made to fit the region? How do you come to that conclusion? Yes, exactly. Ha, yes I suppose so. Could be but I will pervert Mr octman's principle and say that one God is simple while many simply complicates the matter. I am a monotheist and a Christian (on and the same most would agree). With all due respect you didn’t say that specifically, Wait! I better add this so as not to be accused of not reading a post; In Brian’s list he did mention family, if he meant nurture well, I stand corrected.Or maybe I have missed something completely if so please enlighten me?Jeesh its getting flammable in here~I didn’t think I would meet with so much resistance when I posted the thread, even more of a surprise was the antagonism present, even if its mild, nevertheless thanks for all the replies and statements etc.
. ; {>Are there any traditional Christians in here?

I will attempt to! The list below is not complete, as I have left out a few sources such as Josephus (even there is no good reason to really). Some atheists and those that would harm Christianity have attempted to discredit Josephus because, well, they want to harm and discredit Christianity! In any case these are extra biblical secular sources. If the small size is painful I will re-size it on request. Suetonius - Suetonius was chief secretary to Emperor Hadrian (who reigned from A.D. 117-138). He confirms the report of Acts 18:2 that Claudius commanded all Jews (among them Priscilla and Aquila) to leave Rome in A.D. 49.
"As the Jews were making constant disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus, he expelled them from Rome," (Suetonius, Life of Claudius, 25.4).

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Tacitus - The first-century Roman, Tacitus, is considered one of the more accurate historians of the ancient world. He gives the account of the great fire of Rome, for which some blamed the Emperor Nero:
"Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius [Caesar] at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, [see Matt. 27:2, Luke 3:1, Luke 23:23-25] and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their center and become popular." (Tacitus, Annals, 15.44).
[This guy and the others following obviously didn't care for the Christians but gave historical credibility at least to the existence of key biblical figures and events particularly of the crucifixion of Christ.]

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Lucian - was a second-century Greek writer who was a harsh critic of Christianity. "The Christians, you know, worship a man to this day — the distinguished personage who introduced their novel rites, and was crucified on that account.... You see, these misguided creatures start with the general conviction that they are immortal for all time, which explains the contempt of death and voluntary self-devotion which are so common among them; and then it was impressed on them by their original lawgiver that they are all brothers, from the moment that they are converted, and deny the gods of Greece, and worship the crucified sage, and live after his laws. All this they take quite on faith, with the result that they despise all worldly goods alike, regarding them merely as common property. (Lucian of Samosata, "Death of Pelegrine" ,11-13)

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# Thallus — Thallus wrote around A.D. 52. None of his works is extant, though a few fragmented citations are preserved by other writers. One such writer is Julius Africanus who in about A.D. 221 quotes Thallus in a discussion about the darkness that followed the crucifixion of Christ:
"On the whole world there pressed a most fearful darkness, and the rocks were rent by an earthquake, and many places in Judea and other districts were thrown down. This darkness Thallus, in the third book of his History, calls, as appears to me without reason, an eclipse of the sun." (Julius Africanus, Chronography,)

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Matthew 27:51 makes a reference to rocks being split and Luke 23:44-46 refers to the darkness that came over the land as Jesus died.
Africanus' reason for disagreeing with Thallus is that a solar eclipse cannot take place at the time of a full moon [a known scientific fact], and the account reports that "it was at the season of the paschal full moon that Jesus died."

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# Talmud (Jewish Writings) — Sanhedrin 43a: "On the eve of the Passover Yeshu [Jesus] was hanged. For forty days before the execution took place a herald went forth and cried, 'He is going forth to be stoned because he has practiced sorcery [miracles?] and enticed Israel to apostasy.
[Even a Jewish document opposed to Christ admits that he exercised some supernatural power].

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# Mara Bar-Serapion - A Syrian, Mara Bar-Serapion wrote to his son Serapion sometime between the late first and early third centuries. The letter contains an apparent reference to Jesus: "What advantage did the Athenians gain from putting Socrates to death? Famine and plague came upon them as a judgment for their crime. What advantage did the men of Samon gain from burning Pythagoras? In a moment their land was covered with sand. What advantage did the Jews gain from executing their wise King? It was just after that their kingdom was abolished. God justly avenged these three wise men: the Athenians died of hunger; the Samians were overwhelmed by the sea; the Jews, ruined and driven from their land, live in dispersion [The destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans took place in AD 70].
But Socrates did not die for good; he lived on in the statue of Hera. Nor did the wise king die for good; he lived on in the teaching which he had given. (British Museum, Syriac ms, add. 14, 658; cited on Habermas, "The Historical Jesus", 200)
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Ha ha this should be called the skeptical atheists forum! Now after reading all the disagreements and aversions to commonly accepted sources etc I see that there is no use in attempting to change any minds here, they are sealed, locked and boxed. Additionally, there is no way that I can answer five or six members, all requiring a good measure of font. The font is special font as well, it has to be armor piercing to get through all the hate of Christianity here that is thicker than the frontal armor of a tiger tank.As for cut and pastes, I attempt to give members some intellectual credit and don’t think I need to give sources for commonly known information such as the extra biblical writing of roman historians. However I will do so in the future for reasons now very evident. Along the same vein of reasoning, I am sure you are aware that Christ or Christus (Tacitus) etc is Jesus. Yes I am aware it means oil or anointed one (generally speaking).With all due respect you would be laughed out of existence if you attempted to say otherwise, ie that christus wasn’t Jesus in any academic or professional venue etc.I am not going to waste my and your time defending accepted facts. Christ is Jesus. The Christians mentioned in the early roman’s historians writings are the followers of Christ, which is evident upon reading the texts. You do the same thing you accuse me of when the posted attempts to discredit these writings are accomplished using atheist apologetic sources. (owee! that cut is from that double edged blade of a double standard that seems to exist here, at least in this thread!)And what in the world do you mean the roman historians documents were written by Christian apologists? They were secular roman historians that risked much by even mentioning Jesus CHRIST (ie christus, the anointed one).Lastly I know by rote all the feeble rebuttals from atheists hopefuls, they are useless and an affront to anyone’s except for middle school students intellect, so I won’t waste time in that area as well. Contemporary ? Well its contemporary enough. Remember there was no CNN or instant messages, nor scribes standing there writing as events unfolded. I am getting fairly fed up with the innuendos and challenges to my creditability as well. So remember to keep any personal remarks out of any correspondence that is meant for me.Have a nice Godly day. Oh one more thing. As said before with so many responses I will not be able to answer all, so seeing that there are no active traditional Christians here that care to stand up for their faith, (or have they been banned?) the atheists and other skeptics here may have to stand around in a circle and um’ pat each other on the back “.; {>Edited by RevCrossHugger, : No reason given.Edited by RevCrossHugger, : No reason given.Edited by RevCrossHugger, : No reason given.Edited by RevCrossHugger, : No reason given.Edited by RevCrossHugger, : No reason given.Edited by RevCrossHugger, : No reason given.

How did my thread get hijacked? Please stay on topic. In fact I request that if the usual suspects want to discuss the historical Jesus you start another thread and get back to discussing the original thread topic. I have debated the Jesus thing in other forums so often that its terribly boring. I grow weary of the atheists web sites that are held up with sources and then a few replies back see the same member complaining that only christian apologists web sites support this or that. Really! It reeks of a double standard.Oh well nothing is new eh?Remember Jesus loves you and I am trying to.; {>When Selfish Gene author Richard Dawkins challenged physicist John Barrow on his formulation of the constants of nature at last summer Templeton-Cambridge Journalism Fellowship lectures, Barrow laughed and said, “You have a problem with these ideas, Richard, because you aren't really a scientist. You're a biologistEdited by RevCrossHugger, : No reason given.Edited by RevCrossHugger, : No reason given.

Why complain? Because its my thread? Yes that's it! I may of 'let it go off topic, but I did not derail it. I am not a moderator, if I were I would said something earlier. So again please stay on topic. Or feel free to start another thread and beat the Jesus thing some more until you and the usual atheist and secular suspects are satisfied.I am tired of going over the same thing again and again and again like some kind of redundant energizer bunny beating his little furry head against a wall of Christian hate speech.;{>When Selfish Gene author Richard Dawkins challenged physicist John Barrow on his formulation of the constants of nature at last summer Templeton-Cambridge Journalism Fellowship lectures, Barrow laughed and said, You have a problem with these ideas, Richard, because you aren't really a scientist. You're a biologistEdited by RevCrossHugger, : No reason given.Edited by RevCrossHugger, : No reason given.

delete double postWhen Selfish Gene author Richard Dawkins challenged physicist John Barrow on his formulation of the constants of nature at last summer Templeton-Cambridge Journalism Fellowship lectures, Barrow laughed and said, You have a problem with these ideas, Richard, because you aren't really a scientist. You're a biologistEdited by RevCrossHugger, : No reason given.

“All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.” - Arthur Schopenhauer, German philosopher~To the usual suspects;Well I can add fraud to the long list of insults that have been heaped upon me in a comical attempt to discredit my education and life experience. Ha ha ! Indeed ! So much crap and so little time to debunk it. Members in this forum range from 'Google experts' to flaming Gestapo SS. or KKK type haters (not race but religion) to hypocrites and bigots to a few genuine well educated and socially well rounded experts, such as myself.I answer when I have the time, send me a check if you would rather me answer a group of angry atheists than post at a more socially advanced board. Heck I would rather clean toilet at my church or mission than answer some of the asinine replies fielded here. I participate in these message boards for recreation. This is the most hostile, mentally constipated board I have had the displeasure of joining. Why? Must you even ask the brutally obvious? Well for starters its because if its insolent juvenile attitude, and the behavior of many of its knuckle dragging members. The majority of replies aren't enjoyable to read nor field a reply. Of course that's the plan isn't it? Really the creeps here that find enjoyment insulting and taunting Christians or anyone that does not fit in with their atheist group should time back and join the Nazi party, you would be right at home there.As I said in the other thread (staking is in your job description as well?) I will match my educational and life achievements with anyone here and found no takers. Here its the same story. So if anyone is a fraud its well the bulk of the membership here. So please most of the members here are not my peers, but rather my students. Come to my church and learn about the lies your atheist teachers have steeped you in or donate some time at one of my two humanitarian missions (all three's existence are verifiable by looking at the public records in Elizabethton TN)Fraud and cons, and Google scientists, that would be a large measure of the people that have responded to my posts. Forums like this will get rid of people like myself in two ways. One is employ a double standard of moderation (that has not happened yet to my surprise, thank you moderators and Admin). Or they outright ban someone of the Christian faith because of their faith and opinions.This usually only happens if the atheist or Pseudo Skeptic is getting intellectually shredded diced and sliced. The process is enhanced if there are two or more Christians tag teaming (much like the unbelievers do to Christians here)up on a hapless non believer. That has not happened here either, and again I thank the powers that be.In closing I will state to those in your group who's inability to reply without insult (to myself or my religion), you only lack a swastika and a brown shirt to make your personal package complete, I say go for it. In any case as I said I will ONLY respond to a post that has NO personal content. If I read the first hint of personal remark I stop reading, that is the reason I haven't responded to many posts in addition to other reasons stated.; {>“Every man takes the limits of his own field of vision for the limits of the world.” - Arthur Schopenhauer, German philosopher“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn’t true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.” - Sren Kierkegaard, Danish Philosopher..; {> Edited by RevCrossHugger, : add more stuffEdited by RevCrossHugger, : No reason given.

You are so out of line. I do not post my real name when I register at these forums precisely because of stalkers like you. I would be happy to send my transcripts to anyone that sends me theirs with a sase AND sign a legal document (of protection) that will be enclosed. Unethical rats abound on the net you know, and I don't trust anyone especially you. Furthermore I doubt if you even obtained a copy of anything and I will be calling the Dean of the college to tell of your activities.If you aren't telling a lie (which I am pretty sure you are) I will be entering into a action against the school as well.Slander is a criminal offense eh?now run along you have a circle _____ to attend.Have a nice Godly day my friends...duh huh?; {>When Selfish Gene author Richard Dawkins challenged physicist John Barrow on his formulation of the constants of nature at last summer at Templeton-Cambridge Journalism Fellowship lectures, Barrow laughed and said, You have a problem with these ideas, Richard, because you're not really a scientist. You are a biologist.Edited by RevCrossHugger, : No reason given.Edited by RevCrossHugger, : No reason given.Edited by RevCrossHugger, : No reason given.