|
Author
|
Topic: Discrimination ok, if based on religion? what else then?
|
anastasia
Member (Idle past 5983 days) Posts: 1857 From: Bucks County, PA Joined: 11-05-2006
|
Re: Wiki references
Omni, I am not good at providing links. A quick search of 'Catholic pedophilia' should bring you to the Wiki entry.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 192 by Omnivorous, posted 02-05-2007 10:38 AM | | Omnivorous has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 195 by Taz, posted 02-05-2007 5:12 PM | | anastasia has replied |
|
anastasia
Member (Idle past 5983 days) Posts: 1857 From: Bucks County, PA Joined: 11-05-2006
|
|
Message 196 of 248 (382658)
02-05-2007 5:17 PM
|
Reply to: Message 195 by Taz
02-05-2007 5:12 PM
|
|
Re: Wiki references
Sure, I just need to know how. I will work on it now.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 195 by Taz, posted 02-05-2007 5:12 PM | | Taz has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 208 by Taz, posted 02-05-2007 11:47 PM | | anastasia has replied |
|
anastasia
Member (Idle past 5983 days) Posts: 1857 From: Bucks County, PA Joined: 11-05-2006
|
Re: Homosequality
It is about taking a stand on politics, Dan. There was little proof at that time that any genocide was taking place. Roosevelt, Truman, Churchill, and Eisenhower never even mentioned the holocaust in their post-war writings.
|
anastasia
Member (Idle past 5983 days) Posts: 1857 From: Bucks County, PA Joined: 11-05-2006
|
Re: Homosequality
Dan Carroll writes: It must have been easy to assume that 11 million people had just sorta taken an extended nap. Best not to say anything before all the facts are in. It is very easy to judge from your swivel chair. Just read up on it. I am often surprised that those who do not believe in Papal authority even ask for Popes to be involved in politics.
|
anastasia
Member (Idle past 5983 days) Posts: 1857 From: Bucks County, PA Joined: 11-05-2006
|
|
|
Message 204 of 248 (382767)
02-05-2007 11:13 PM
|
Reply to: Message 201 by nator
02-05-2007 7:38 PM
|
|
Re: Homosequality
Please, I can't do links, but a quick search will tell you that John Cornwell's book has been severely criticized, and that the author himself can no longer vouch for his accusations against the Pope. I do not want to be tempted again to provide quotes without links.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 201 by nator, posted 02-05-2007 7:38 PM | | nator has not replied |
|
anastasia
Member (Idle past 5983 days) Posts: 1857 From: Bucks County, PA Joined: 11-05-2006
|
Re: Homosequality
Dan Carroll writes: Schraf's post above makes for interesting reading. Then you might like; The Myth of Hitler's Pope by Rabbi David Dalin. 
The Defamation of Pius XII - LewRockwell LewRockwell.com
It doesn't take a tremendous amount of involvement in politics to say the words, "genocide is wrong." Obviously it doesn't take a tremendous amount of anything to believe the first thing you hear. Edited by anastasia, : No reason given.
|
anastasia
Member (Idle past 5983 days) Posts: 1857 From: Bucks County, PA Joined: 11-05-2006
|
|
|
Message 209 of 248 (382789)
02-05-2007 11:58 PM
|
Reply to: Message 208 by Taz
02-05-2007 11:47 PM
|
|
Re: Wiki references
Thanks Taz. I got the linkage going, didn't know how to title them.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 208 by Taz, posted 02-05-2007 11:47 PM | | Taz has not replied |
|
anastasia
Member (Idle past 5983 days) Posts: 1857 From: Bucks County, PA Joined: 11-05-2006
|
|
|
Message 213 of 248 (383003)
02-06-2007 4:08 PM
|
Reply to: Message 212 by nator
02-06-2007 9:18 AM
|
|
Re: Homosequality
The main points of the concordat are The right to freedom of the Roman Catholic religion. (Article 1) The state concordats with Bavaria (1924), Prussia (1929), and Baden (1932) remain valid. (Article 2) Unhindered correspondence between the Holy See and German Catholics. (Article 4) The right of the church to collect church taxes. (Article 13) The oath of allegiance of the bishops: "(...) Ich schwre und verspreche, die verfassungsmssig gebildete Regierung zu achten und von meinem Klerus achten zu lassen (...)" ("I swear and vow to honor the constitutional government and to make my clergy honor it") (Article 16) State services to the church can be abolished only in mutual agreement. (Article 18) Catholic religion is taught in school (article 21) and teachers for Catholic religion can be employed only with the approval of the bishop (article 22). Protection of Catholic organizations and freedom of religious practice. (Article 31) Clerics may not be members of or be active for political parties. (Article 32) Reichskonkordat
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 212 by nator, posted 02-06-2007 9:18 AM | | nator has not replied |
|
anastasia
Member (Idle past 5983 days) Posts: 1857 From: Bucks County, PA Joined: 11-05-2006
|
Reichskonkordat
I do not care that any Cardinal had confidence in Germany under Hitler. Hitler proved that this Cardinal's confidence was mis-placed, and he fooled many, many people in the same way.
|
anastasia
Member (Idle past 5983 days) Posts: 1857 From: Bucks County, PA Joined: 11-05-2006
|
|
|
Message 216 of 248 (383123)
02-06-2007 11:01 PM
|
Reply to: Message 210 by anglagard
02-06-2007 12:16 AM
|
|
Re: Call for Historic Accuracy
Thank you anglagard. I don't need links, just showing that the depth and scope of the crimes committed in war-time Germany were not immediately known by anyone, not even the pope. While he (Pius XII)did speak out against the atrocities of war in general, no one of the time period seems to have fully described the situation in the terms which we use today. Edited by anastasia, : No reason given.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 210 by anglagard, posted 02-06-2007 12:16 AM | | anglagard has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 218 by Taz, posted 02-07-2007 12:57 PM | | anastasia has replied |
|
anastasia
Member (Idle past 5983 days) Posts: 1857 From: Bucks County, PA Joined: 11-05-2006
|
|
|
Message 219 of 248 (383219)
02-07-2007 2:03 PM
|
Reply to: Message 218 by Taz
02-07-2007 12:57 PM
|
|
Re: Call for Historic Accuracy
TazmanianDevil writes: Furthermore, you stated yourself that the church, just like everybody else, had no idea murderous persecution and genocide was being committed and you turned around and proudly proclaimed that the church tried to save hundreds of thousands of jews. I did not proclaim a thing. I provided a link to Rabbi Dalin's book review to exemplify that in history, there are facts, and in histories, there are interpretations. These are biases and we won't be rid of them. Motive must be ascribed to character, and I have no more authority to tell you of the motive for the Reichskonkordat than the best scholars on the subject do, surely not. I will not even allow you any fun with my biases. I have told you the truth, in both versions.. Just remember there is no black or white, and I will be content. You people make me laugh. Someone accuses the church of racism, provides a link as 'evidence' which is countered quite readily by other links and even the disatisfaction of the author himself, the scholars can't agree on anything, and you want to get on ME for ambiguity. History is ambiguous, Taz, the truth is waiting. Go find it. Edited by anastasia, : No reason given.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 218 by Taz, posted 02-07-2007 12:57 PM | | Taz has replied |
|
anastasia
Member (Idle past 5983 days) Posts: 1857 From: Bucks County, PA Joined: 11-05-2006
|
Re: Call for Historic Accuracy
Dan writes: I see. Those 700,000 people may or may not have actually been saved by the church, in reality. But it's fun to interpret history in such a way that they were. Correct. In fact, there is much speculation that the Vatican was collecting Jews for an historic re-enactment of the Crucifixion.
|
anastasia
Member (Idle past 5983 days) Posts: 1857 From: Bucks County, PA Joined: 11-05-2006
|
|
|
Message 224 of 248 (383241)
02-07-2007 2:52 PM
|
Reply to: Message 221 by ringo
02-07-2007 2:17 PM
|
|
Re: Call for Historic Accuracy
Ringo writes: How many acts of racism does it take to make a racist? And how many acts of magnanimity does it take to un-make one?
If a particular act is "ambiguous" isn't that cause for self-examination rather than knee-jerk self-defense? No need to assume an act was ambiguous just because historians can't behave any better collectively. You are always welcome to choose sides.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 221 by ringo, posted 02-07-2007 2:17 PM | | ringo has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 225 by ringo, posted 02-07-2007 3:26 PM | | anastasia has not replied |
|
anastasia
Member (Idle past 5983 days) Posts: 1857 From: Bucks County, PA Joined: 11-05-2006
|
|
|
Message 226 of 248 (383263)
02-07-2007 3:47 PM
|
Reply to: Message 223 by Taz
02-07-2007 2:25 PM
|
|
Re: Call for Historic Accuracy
TazmanianDevil writes: I'm asking you now. Did the church endorse the nazis or not? Did the church know about the persecutions of jews and other "outcasts" or not? Oh, I see. You do prefer bias to information. Let's just say, I believe you will live to see Pius XII canonized.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 223 by Taz, posted 02-07-2007 2:25 PM | | Taz has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 228 by Taz, posted 02-07-2007 4:57 PM | | anastasia has not replied |
|
™ Version 4.2