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Author Topic:   Destruction of Pompei is 1631 year.
dwise1
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Posts: 5966
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 13 of 132 (377215)
01-15-2007 3:58 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by elcano
01-15-2007 3:29 PM


Re: Carbon-14 does NOT rely on vesuvius at ALL
elcano writes:
However Pompeii were destroyed on December, 16th, 1631 (the inscription on a monument gives such date)
Please refer us to something that will tell us something about that monument and the complete text of what's written on it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by elcano, posted 01-15-2007 3:29 PM elcano has replied

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 Message 15 by elcano, posted 01-15-2007 4:24 PM dwise1 has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5966
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 20 of 132 (377229)
01-15-2007 5:05 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by elcano
01-15-2007 3:58 PM


Re: Confused
Date can be understood without text translation.
I would recommend that you get it translated nonetheless. The same goes for the Italian page about the monument.
We have the following message.
Luce iam sexta decimal Decembris; Sexdecim seclis pariter peractis:
Atque sex lustris prope iam voluto Mensibus anno.
Saxa ructantem glomerata flammis; Igne combustos cineres Veseuum
Vidimus, circum penitus ruentem Ruraque, Villas.
Igneus Naphthae fluuius recursat; Vnde Pompeios Populos, & agros
Funditos vastat, ruit Herculanum, Et pecus omne.
Motibus diris tremuere turres, Ictibus crebris quatiuntur aedes;
Et cauernoso resonat boatu Vesubius ore. Giuliani Gianbernardino, 1632, Trattato del Monte Vesuvio e de' suoi incendi, Napoli - p.181
http://mdz1.bib-bvb.de...
That does not properly represent the source. This part, "Giuliani Gianbernardino, 1632, Trattato del Monte Vesuvio e de' suoi incendi, Napoli - p.181", is not part of the text being quoted. Rather, it is the source. On the page we are linked to, an image of page 181 of the treatise is displayed inside of a web page frame and above and outside of that web page frame we see displayed:
Giuliani, Giovanni Bernardino: Trattato del monte Vesuvio e de suoi incendi, Napoli 1632
That it was from page 181, we see on the image itself.
The date of 1632 is the date in which Giuliani published his treatise in Naples, not the date when the Roman city of Pompeii was destroyed.
Here's a novel idea that you might want to consider. This year, a historian in Moscow publishes an article about the 1917 Revolution (known in the US as "The Russian Revolution"). The date of publication will be 2007. Does that mean that the Russian Revolution took place in 2007?
Think about it. And in the meantime, get your sources translated. Learn what they say. If you are going to make a claim that "refutes" what everybody else knows, then you will need knowledge to support your claim, not ignorance. And right now you are ignorant of what your "sources" say.
Edited by dwise1, : No reason given.
Edited by dwise1, : No reason given.
Edited by dwise1, : No reason given.
Edited by AdminAsgara, : No reason given.

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 Message 12 by elcano, posted 01-15-2007 3:58 PM elcano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by elcano, posted 01-15-2007 5:39 PM dwise1 has replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5966
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 26 of 132 (377246)
01-15-2007 6:16 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by elcano
01-15-2007 5:39 PM


Re: Confused
Luce iam sexta decimal Decembris; Sexdecim seclis pariter peractis:
Atque sex lustris prope iam voluto Mensibus anno.
It is date December, 16th, 1631.
I can see what could be "16 December", but I do not at all see what could possibly be "1631".
Complete and accurate English translation of the Latin, please.
And anyone familiar with Latin, do please jump in any time here.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by elcano, posted 01-15-2007 5:39 PM elcano has replied

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 Message 96 by elcano, posted 01-18-2007 3:00 PM dwise1 has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5966
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 28 of 132 (377254)
01-15-2007 7:10 PM


So where's that problem, elcano?
From Wikipedia, English edition, "Mount Vesuvius" at Mount Vesuvius - Wikipedia:
quote:
Later eruptions
Since the eruption of 79, Vesuvius has erupted around three dozen times. It erupted again in 203, during the lifetime of the historian Cassius Dio. In 472, it ejected such a volume of ash that ashfalls were reported as far away as Constantinople. The eruptions of 512 were so severe that those inhabiting the slopes of Vesuvius were granted exemption from taxes by Theodoric the Great, the Gothic king of Italy. Further eruptions were recorded in 787, 968, 991, 999, 1007 and 1036 with the first recorded lava flows. The volcano became quiescent at the end of the 13th century and in the following years it again became covered with gardens and vineyards as of old. Even the inside of the crater was filled with shrubbery.
Vesuvius entered a new and particularly destructive phase in December 1631, when a major eruption buried many villages under lava flows, killing around 3,000 people. Torrents of boiling water were also ejected, adding to the devastation. Activity thereafter became almost continuous, with relatively severe eruptions occurring in 1660, 1682, 1694, 1698, 1707, 1737, 1760, 1767, 1779, 1794, 1822, 1834, 1839, 1850, 1855, 1861, 1868, 1872, 1906, 1926, 1929, and 1944. The eruption of 1906 was particularly destructive, killing over 100 people and ejecting the most lava ever recorded from a Vesuvian eruption. Its last major eruption as of 2007 came in March 1944, destroying the villages of San Sebastiano al Vesuvio, Massa di Somma, Ottaviano, and part of San Giorgio a Cremano, as well as all 88 planes in a U.S. B-25 bomber group [32], as World War II continued to rage in Italy.
The volcano has been quiescent ever since. Over the past few centuries, the quiet stages have varied from 18 months to 7 years, making the current lull in activity the longest in nearly 500 years. While Vesuvius is not thought likely to erupt in the immediate future, the danger posed by future eruptions is seen as very high in the light of the volcano's tendency towards sudden extremely violent explosions and the very dense human population on and around the mountain.
So Vesuvius erupted about 32 more times since the 79 AD eruption that buried Pompeii. Each eruption was a separate event.
Elcano, please explain to us your intricate logic in determining that the 1631 eruption would have made it impossible for the 79AD eruption to have occurred.

Replies to this message:
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dwise1
Member
Posts: 5966
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 103 of 132 (378166)
01-19-2007 7:27 PM
Reply to: Message 102 by elcano
01-19-2007 7:06 PM


Re: for all
They knew the names from the ancient Roman histories which many, if not most, scholars had read or were at least familiar with. From those histories, they would have known about where the cities had been.
Much the same as with Troy, whose name and approximate location was known because of the Illiad. As with Pompeii and Herculeum (P&H), Troy was not forgotten because its story had been written down and survived to continue to be read centuries later. If they had relied solely on oral tradition then they would have been forgotten within a few generations, but having been written down enabled them to survive for thousands of years.
The main difference between Troy and P&H is that scholars weren't sure whether Troy had actually existed since it was told of in a literary work, whereas they were much more certain that P&H existed since they were described in actual histories.

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 Message 102 by elcano, posted 01-19-2007 7:06 PM elcano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 104 by elcano, posted 01-19-2007 8:02 PM dwise1 has replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5966
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 105 of 132 (378197)
01-19-2007 8:30 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by elcano
01-19-2007 8:02 PM


Re: for all
There is no information in modern books that medieval authors mention Pompeii. (Why?)
Medieval == pre-Renaissance. What triggered the Renaissance was the rediscovery and reading of the ancient authors.
Plus, the works of medieval authors did not spread very far, because they pre-dated the printing press. Most medieval "authors" were more concerned with hand-copying the books that already existed.
The Renaissance did have printing presses, so there were a lot more authors and a lot more of their books printed and distributed. Plus, they had more ready access to the ancient authors (eg, from books written in Byzantium ("the Second Rome" in Russian Orthodoxy, the "Third Rome" being Moscow) and brought to the West by refugees.

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