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Author Topic:   Destruction of Pompei is 1631 year.
anastasia
Member (Idle past 5977 days)
Posts: 1857
From: Bucks County, PA
Joined: 11-05-2006


Message 40 of 132 (377413)
01-16-2007 4:37 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by elcano
01-16-2007 3:43 PM


Re: Pliny the Younger.
Privet, elcano!
I am not an expert, but I think you're problem is not too hard to solve.
Vesuvius erupted many times. In 79 it destroyed Pompei. Pliny the Younger was a witness according to a letter found which is thought to be written by him.
In 1631 Vesuvius erupted again. The epitaph is a memorial of this eruption. This epitaph says either that the people were killed just like at Pompei, or that the people in that area called Pompei were killed.
This is a simplified answer that may not be what you are looking for. If there is more to this than language I apologize.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by elcano, posted 01-16-2007 3:43 PM elcano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by elcano, posted 01-16-2007 5:16 PM anastasia has replied

  
anastasia
Member (Idle past 5977 days)
Posts: 1857
From: Bucks County, PA
Joined: 11-05-2006


Message 46 of 132 (377421)
01-16-2007 5:37 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by elcano
01-16-2007 4:38 PM


Re: Why do you believe this stuff?
Quelques auteurs, tels que Ignarra et Laporte-Dutheil, ont avancé que Pompéi n'avait pas disparu dans l'éruption de 79 et que, réparée, elle avait encore subsisté jusqu' l'an 471,
That's about all I could find in your link.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by elcano, posted 01-16-2007 4:38 PM elcano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by elcano, posted 01-16-2007 5:46 PM anastasia has replied

  
anastasia
Member (Idle past 5977 days)
Posts: 1857
From: Bucks County, PA
Joined: 11-05-2006


Message 48 of 132 (377424)
01-16-2007 5:44 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by elcano
01-16-2007 5:16 PM


Re: Pliny the Younger.
“Excavation began in the 18th century, when all memory of the existence of Herculaneum had been lost for centuries and the only available reports of it were those that had come down through the authors of antiquity, without any information as to the exact position of the ancient city.”
So what? After many years and buried evidence, someone wnated to see if Pliny was telling the truth.
elcano writes:
After eruption 79 years have forgotten about these cities, at all did not know their site.
They didn't know exactly where they were, so what? They looked and they found out.
Why these cities are present on maps of 16 -17 centuries?
What maps? Show me one. There are many kinds of maps, including maps of where people THOUGHT ancient cities were.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by elcano, posted 01-16-2007 5:16 PM elcano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by elcano, posted 01-17-2007 2:13 PM anastasia has not replied

  
anastasia
Member (Idle past 5977 days)
Posts: 1857
From: Bucks County, PA
Joined: 11-05-2006


Message 50 of 132 (377427)
01-16-2007 5:46 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by elcano
01-16-2007 5:42 PM


Re: Pliny the Younger.
elcano writes:
Pliny in the book does not result any dates.
When do you think Pompei was destroyed?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by elcano, posted 01-16-2007 5:42 PM elcano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by elcano, posted 01-17-2007 2:22 PM anastasia has replied

  
anastasia
Member (Idle past 5977 days)
Posts: 1857
From: Bucks County, PA
Joined: 11-05-2006


Message 51 of 132 (377429)
01-16-2007 5:58 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by elcano
01-16-2007 5:46 PM


Re: Why do you believe this stuff?
In your link the OUTDATED historian M. Breton talks about some clues to how he knew where to look for Pompei. It doesn't have anything to do with the dates.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by elcano, posted 01-16-2007 5:46 PM elcano has not replied

  
anastasia
Member (Idle past 5977 days)
Posts: 1857
From: Bucks County, PA
Joined: 11-05-2006


Message 55 of 132 (377435)
01-16-2007 6:09 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by AdminNosy
01-16-2007 5:59 PM


Re: Translate or don't post
We however see reappearing the names of Pompéi, Herculanum and Stabies in works quite former to their discovery. One reads in the history written in IXe century by the Martin monk that in 838, Sicard, prince de Bénévent, camped with its army in Pompeio campo which has Pompeia urbe Campania nunc deserted nomen accepit. Since 1488, Niccolo Perotto mentions these city in its Cornucopia; Sannazar speaks about Pompéi in its Arcadia (Prosa, XII), whose first edition appeared in 1504; in the chart of Ambrogio Leone, 1513, one finds marked with the place that Portici Herculaneum Oppidum occupies; Leandro Alberti (Descrizione di tutta Italia, 1561) points out the towns of Herculanum, Pompéi and Stabies, buried by Vesuvius, indicating the site where at that time it was BELIEVED that they had existed;
My caps there...ha, even this translation is whacky.
I don't know if he reads French either, as this is only an account of possible excavation sites.
Edited by anastasia, : No reason given.

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 Message 56 by RAZD, posted 01-16-2007 7:08 PM anastasia has replied

  
anastasia
Member (Idle past 5977 days)
Posts: 1857
From: Bucks County, PA
Joined: 11-05-2006


Message 59 of 132 (377473)
01-17-2007 12:14 AM
Reply to: Message 56 by RAZD
01-16-2007 7:08 PM


Re: Translate or don't post
RAZD writes:
did you use babelfish?
I just googled the name 'Sicard, prince of Benevent' and found the reference by the author Breton which elcano cited. Looks like we both got the same whacy one;
One reads in the history written in IXe century by the Martin monk that in 838, Sicard, prince de Bénévent, camped with its army
I have done a little browsing and found that elcano's idea was part of a larger picture, i.e.,finding the 'real' Mount Sinai. It has something to do with 'history revision' and establishing a new chronology of the world ala Anatoly Fomenko;
History; Science or Fiction? writes:
The fact that many Biblical texts clearly refer to volcanic activity has been well known to historians for a long time. The word Zion is widely known; theologians interpret it as “pillar”. Identifying Zion as Sinai and Horeb is common in both theology and Bible studies. The rational person shall however try to think of what the Biblecould really be referring to? Volcanoes? But there aren’t any active volcanoes anywhere in the Middle East - nor Northern Africa, nor most of continental Europe, for that matter. However, there is an exception - Italy and the famous Vesuvius. It is at a considerable distance from Palestine, granted. But let us make the heretical presumption that the real events that became reflected in the book we know as the Bible really took place elsewhere, despite of what the illustrations in the modern bibles are telling us.
There is a shift from Fomenko's idea of Vesuvius being Sinai, to Aetna being Sinai.
It is somehow contingent on proving that Vesuvius erupted only once or that Pliny was either fictitious or referring to a different volcano?
I am better at finding the clues than analyzing them, and much of the material in the links is poorly translated as well...so feel free to fill in the missing gaps.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by RAZD, posted 01-16-2007 7:08 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by RAZD, posted 01-17-2007 8:07 AM anastasia has not replied
 Message 98 by elcano, posted 01-18-2007 3:52 PM anastasia has not replied

  
anastasia
Member (Idle past 5977 days)
Posts: 1857
From: Bucks County, PA
Joined: 11-05-2006


Message 67 of 132 (377570)
01-17-2007 2:46 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by elcano
01-17-2007 2:22 PM


Re: Pliny the Younger.
elcano writes:
Date on a monument from Torre del Greco is on December, 16th, 1631
We already talked about this...it was your first post, remember?
We all know Vesuvius erupted in 1631.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by elcano, posted 01-17-2007 2:22 PM elcano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by elcano, posted 01-17-2007 3:07 PM anastasia has replied

  
anastasia
Member (Idle past 5977 days)
Posts: 1857
From: Bucks County, PA
Joined: 11-05-2006


Message 69 of 132 (377574)
01-17-2007 2:57 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by elcano
01-17-2007 2:42 PM


Re: Why do you believe this stuff?
elcano writes:
Thanks for translation, but you have translated only the first part. I have resulted the second part in the message 49. (but in French) Please translate this part, differently it will clean.
It has been translated twice already, once by me and once by RAZD.
I am not sure what the point is, elcano. If you want to prove that Vesuvius only erupted once then don't give references from a man who went looking for an ancient Roman city. Just tell us already what your point is.
Edited by anastasia, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by elcano, posted 01-17-2007 2:42 PM elcano has not replied

  
anastasia
Member (Idle past 5977 days)
Posts: 1857
From: Bucks County, PA
Joined: 11-05-2006


Message 74 of 132 (377582)
01-17-2007 3:19 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by elcano
01-17-2007 2:58 PM


Re: Still paying attention here
elcano writes:
The Neapolitan kingdom in 17 century is not Italian. It belongs to Spain. In what language wrote official documents (laws) we does not know
Sicily was split between French possession of the mainland and Spanish possession of the Island...but it doesn't mean anything as 'evidence'. Even if part of Sicily was ruled by France, it doesn't mean everyone suddenly spoke French.
The point is, the city found which we call Pompeii, had no French, Spanish, Italian, only Latin. Sure, it is possible to find a 17th century document written in Latin...but come on. You want us to believe that they were all speaking Latin AND living in Roman buildings in 1631?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by elcano, posted 01-17-2007 2:58 PM elcano has not replied

  
anastasia
Member (Idle past 5977 days)
Posts: 1857
From: Bucks County, PA
Joined: 11-05-2006


Message 75 of 132 (377585)
01-17-2007 3:29 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by elcano
01-17-2007 3:07 PM


Re: Pliny the Younger.
elcano writes:
You seriously think, that the monument to victims of eruption of 1631 is a monument on events by an event 1500 years ago.
I never said that, elcano. The monument is about the event of 1631, and about the men who were able to clear the roads. But I feel very confident in saying that Herculaenum for one did not exist in 1631, and that your monument is only making a reference to the past eruption.
Do YOU seriously believe that all of our archaelogists totally forgot about this monument that 'proves' Vesuvius never erupted before? There must be millions of tourists at the Via Nazionale every year.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by elcano, posted 01-17-2007 3:07 PM elcano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by elcano, posted 01-17-2007 4:09 PM anastasia has replied

  
anastasia
Member (Idle past 5977 days)
Posts: 1857
From: Bucks County, PA
Joined: 11-05-2006


Message 77 of 132 (377592)
01-17-2007 3:52 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by elcano
01-17-2007 3:42 PM


Re: Still paying attention here
elcano writes:
Why monuments of 17 centuries have inscriptions in latin language?
Are you serious? Why did Catholics have books in Latin in 1950? I know my family was 'Roman' Catholic before I was born, but maybe I should ask if they got to church by chariot?
Maybe it was so people could READ IT, from all different countries? It was a tourist site, you know, a very famous place. Besides, one of these links around here said the Latin was effective and accurate but not eloquent (obviously a translation).
I really hope your Mr Fomenko has more behind his hypothesis than this? Maybe you could just come out and tell us what you are trying to say. I would like to know how this new time-line for history looks. It is based on a short 1000 year old history of civilization, yes?
Edited by anastasia, : No reason given.
Edited by anastasia, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by elcano, posted 01-17-2007 3:42 PM elcano has not replied

  
anastasia
Member (Idle past 5977 days)
Posts: 1857
From: Bucks County, PA
Joined: 11-05-2006


Message 80 of 132 (377598)
01-17-2007 4:27 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by elcano
01-17-2007 4:09 PM


Re: Pliny the Younger.
elcano writes:
Epitaffio is only in three books in 18 century. Existence Epittafio in 19 century is marked only in two book. With the full text Epitafio I did not see any book of 20 centuries. Even here http://www.vesuvioweb.com/new/article.php3?id_article=202
the photo only the top part of a monument where is absent the cities of Pompeii.
Oh, I get it! Now the monument is fake also. Can you tell me what happened? Someone removed part of it? Are you saying the bottom part is no longer there, just because you can't find a picture of it? Maybe you should just go to Italy and check.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by elcano, posted 01-17-2007 4:09 PM elcano has not replied

  
anastasia
Member (Idle past 5977 days)
Posts: 1857
From: Bucks County, PA
Joined: 11-05-2006


Message 82 of 132 (377609)
01-17-2007 4:53 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by Chiroptera
01-17-2007 4:35 PM


Re: I have a question.
Chiroptera writes:
elcano, why are you trying to discuss a very controversial topic in a language with which you have difficulty?
Don't worry about it. He's just playing an online fantasy game with Anatoly Fomenko as the Dungeon Master.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by Chiroptera, posted 01-17-2007 4:35 PM Chiroptera has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by Chiroptera, posted 01-17-2007 4:57 PM anastasia has replied

  
anastasia
Member (Idle past 5977 days)
Posts: 1857
From: Bucks County, PA
Joined: 11-05-2006


Message 85 of 132 (377615)
01-17-2007 5:07 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by Chiroptera
01-17-2007 4:57 PM


Re: I have a question.
Chiroptera writes:
or whether he's just pulling our collective leg.
If he is, he's not alone. There are web-pages all over where the members of this 'game' get together to create new roles for the players in history...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by Chiroptera, posted 01-17-2007 4:57 PM Chiroptera has not replied

  
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