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Author Topic:   Destruction of Pompei is 1631 year.
Percy
Member
Posts: 22550
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 10 of 132 (377210)
01-15-2007 3:35 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by elcano
01-15-2007 3:03 PM


Hi Elcano,
The remains of the ancient city of Pompeii were first discovered in 1592 by Domenico Fontana while constructing a water works project. This was several decades before the 1631 eruption.
Modern excavations reveal the public buildings to be of 1st century Roman architecture, and temples of Apollo, Venus, Zeus and Isis have been found. The written language of inscriptions on buildings and monuments and preserved in wax tablets and graffiti is Latin. Pottery, tableware, etc., is consistent with 1st century Roman styles. There is nothing consistent with 17th century Italy.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by elcano, posted 01-15-2007 3:03 PM elcano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by elcano, posted 01-15-2007 4:14 PM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22550
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 16 of 132 (377220)
01-15-2007 4:28 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by elcano
01-15-2007 4:14 PM


Hi Elcano,
I'm not sure what the problem is here. I can't tell if this is a comprehension issue or a language barrier, but I see no indication that repeating contrary evidence yet again would help.
I'd ask you how things are in Moscow, but your ISP seems to be in Massachusetts.
--Percy
PS to Creationists: Elcano is arguing that correlation of radiocarbon dating with the 79 AD eruption of Mt. Vesuvius is invalid because the eruption that buried the 1st century town of Pompeii actually happened in 1631. I suggest that it would be a good idea for other creationists to either help Elcano support his point so he doesn't look like another totally loony creationist, or to make clear that creationism does not actually support denial of the 79 AD eruption.

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 Message 14 by elcano, posted 01-15-2007 4:14 PM elcano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Taz, posted 01-15-2007 4:44 PM Percy has not replied
 Message 18 by elcano, posted 01-15-2007 4:51 PM Percy has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22550
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 54 of 132 (377432)
01-16-2007 6:04 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by elcano
01-16-2007 4:38 PM


Re: Why do you believe this stuff?
elcano writes:
In 18 century it has been solved, that Pompeii were lost in 79 year. However in 19 century there were doubts in such date. Introduction historique de Pompeia, d'Ernest Breton
The website you cite expresses no doubts about the dating of Pompeii. Where it mentions alternative dating it does so only to reject such proposals. For example, this is from the page preceding the one you cite (translated from the French):
Introduction historique de Pompeia, d'Ernest Breton:
Some authors, such as Ignarra and Laporte-Dutheil, have advanced that Pompéi had not disappeared in the eruption from 79 and that, repaired, it had still remained until year 471, when another earthquake would have definitively destroyed it; they are based on the fact that Pompéi is still on the chart of Peutinger carried out in Constantinople at the end of the 4th century; but they forgot a quite important fact which destroys their system completely: it is that, so far, in the ruins of Pompéi, one did not find a single medal posterior with the reign of Titus and year 79. If the name of Pompéi still exists on the chart of Peutinger, it is that part of its inhabitants had raised at some distance from the destroyed city a borough which undoubtedly had taken the name of it.
The excavated city of Pompeii reveals a 1st century Roman town in terms of architecture, religion, pottery, tools, etc. The language found on buildings, sculptures, documents, etc., is Latin, not Italian. Latin was already a dead language by the time of your claimed 17th century date, and even the website you cite rejects an earlier 4th century date.
--Percy
Edited by Percy, : Correct language.

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 Message 41 by elcano, posted 01-16-2007 4:38 PM elcano has replied

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 Message 66 by elcano, posted 01-17-2007 2:42 PM Percy has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22550
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 73 of 132 (377581)
01-17-2007 3:16 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by elcano
01-17-2007 2:58 PM


Re: Still paying attention here
elcano writes:
The Neapolitan kingdom in 17 century is not Italian. It belongs to Spain. In what language wrote official documents (laws) we does not know.
I don't know about that, or even whether the language of official documents is important, since it's the predominant language used by the inhabitants that is significant here, but whatever language it was, it wasn't Latin, which was a dead language by the 17th century. The language of excavated Pompeii was Latin.
Your point also contains a fallacy. While France and Spain battled over control of the Naples region from the 14th century onwards, this had little influence on the language used by the inhabitants, which was a dialect of Italian. When William the Conqueror put England under the control of France in 1066, England did not suddenly become a French speaking country. In the same way, as control by France and Spain ebbed and flowed, the language spoken by the inhabitants also did not change, certainly not in any significant way.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by elcano, posted 01-17-2007 2:58 PM elcano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 76 by elcano, posted 01-17-2007 3:42 PM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22550
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 78 of 132 (377594)
01-17-2007 4:03 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by elcano
01-17-2007 3:42 PM


Re: Still paying attention here
elcano writes:
Why monuments of 17 centuries have inscriptions in latin language?
See http://www.vesuvioweb.com/new/article.php3?id_article=216
Epitaffio in Portici and Epitaffio in Torre del Greco
Although a dead language, Latin continued to be used all around the western world on things like plaques and monuments. The Catholic mass was still given in Latin until just a few decades ago. You can go to Westminster Abbey in England and find Latin plaques all over the place, and the English never spoke Latin!
In other words, the presence of a Latin plaque anywhere in the world says nothing about the language of the local inhabitants. But the language of the inhabitants of the excavated town of Pompeii *was* Latin, as revealed by its use literally everywhere, from monuments and statues all the way down to graffiti and doormats. It first century origin is also indicated by the architecture, by the temples to the Roman gods, by the pottery, and by the technology.
--Percy

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 Message 76 by elcano, posted 01-17-2007 3:42 PM elcano has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22550
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 114 of 132 (479016)
08-23-2008 7:01 AM
Reply to: Message 113 by elcano
08-23-2008 5:42 AM


Re: data of eruption
elcano writes:
The Italian archeologists do not agree with eruption date.
They don't agree with your eruption date, either.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by elcano, posted 08-23-2008 5:42 AM elcano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 116 by elcano, posted 08-23-2008 5:42 PM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22550
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 119 of 132 (479066)
08-24-2008 7:45 AM
Reply to: Message 116 by elcano
08-23-2008 5:42 PM


Re: data of eruption
Your source:
Professor Fortuante Pasqule writes:
From this interesting discovery we are now certain that Pompeii was destroyed on November 5th, 79.
You:
elcano writes:
Eruption of Vesuvius was 16 december 1631.
Archeological finds assert that Pompey has been destroyed in the winter.
In general you want to look for sources that agree with rather than contradict you.
--Percy
Edited by Percy, : Grammar.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by elcano, posted 08-23-2008 5:42 PM elcano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 120 by elcano, posted 08-24-2008 2:16 PM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22550
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 122 of 132 (479098)
08-24-2008 3:23 PM
Reply to: Message 120 by elcano
08-24-2008 2:16 PM


Re: data of eruption
elcano writes:
You really believe that there are any sources confirming destruction of Pompey in 1631.
Did you forget that it is you arguing for the 1631 date?
All I was doing in my Message 119 was pointing out that the source you cited in support of a 1631 AD date actually contradicts your position, stating unequivocally that the date was 79 AD.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by elcano, posted 08-24-2008 2:16 PM elcano has not replied

  
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