Your Most Controversial Opinions!

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If you have a daughter/sister just ask them about girls and bullying - this ain't no mystery.

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Yeah, that's true.However, I'd like to see the stats on suicide rates among girls who are victims of female bullying.Then I'd like to compare them with the stats on man-on-woman rape and domestic violence.And what does that have to do with men's propensity to rape, anyway?

People don't commit suicide because they get picked on. They commit suicide because they're mentally ill. See "clinical depression." No, it's not. But bullying wasn't the topic, and being bullied isn't as bad as being raped. (I've asked.) And your references don't even begin to support what I asked AO to support.

But this is what confuses me somewhat.I fully accept that all men are potentially capable of rape. However I also know that all people, if pushed, are capable of murder.Crash feels that my "male pride" has been dented somehow. Quite the contrary. I simply question the idea that I must see myself and my friends as a potential rapist. After all, would we ask all black kids in rough neighbourhoods to identify themselves as a potential gang members? I think not.The result of these studies should be use positively in education, not negatively as a labelling device to divide groups.Oh, and it seems to me that the only thing Crash "gets" is to how make self-serving statements about how lacking in sexist attitudes he is as compared to the rest of us cavemen.....

Hear Hear RickI just want to go on record as being a woman who does NOT "get it" like Crash gets it.Psychological aggression is just as painful and demeaning as physical aggression. Yes, Schraf had a lousy childhood and suffered trauma at the hands of some males. Not all women have such experiences, many men do. I know many women, myself and my daughter for example, who would have rather been hit at times rather than deal with the psychological trauma. Both are painful, debilitating, and damaging and both can be perpitrated by either sex.This all sounds so much like "us against them" and its bullshit. Even some of the number floating around this thread...the stats are not 1 in 4 that I can find. They are 1 in 6, 17%. Yes this is still a lousy number but not as bad sounding as 1 in 4.Turning "being aware of your surroundings and not putting yourself in situations that are likely to lead to problems" into some feminist manifesto is NOT how I or any of my friends "get it."I can not for the life of me understand how what Archer has been posting has been turned against him. I'm sure I will get it now, especially since I didn't have the time this morning to delve into the thread again and make my case better...I just couldn't sit back and let everyone think that this is how all women view it.

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Asgara
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From what basis do you conclude that they aren't? I mean, I'm sure it makes you feel better to see yourself and your friends as being "too good to rape", but that's what everbody said about most people who rape.Look, you can believe whatever you like, I guess, if that's what it takes to make you feel better about yourself. I'm committed, personally, to not telling myself lies just to feel better. I've made no such statements. To the contrary - I admitted that I've been sexist (very sexist), and merely stated that I try not to be, now. I've even come right out and told you that I'm not willing to assert that I'll never rape. (I hope I won't, though.) Self-serving? I've been self-depricating at every turn.It's been you guys who are so adamant that you're "good guys", that you could never be rapists or zap people with lethal electricity or be abusive prison guards (or even simply turn a blind eye to abuse) - in the face of a mountain of evidence that people exactly like you do those things all the time.So cram it up your ass. I've provided a considerable evidentiary basis for my conclusions about human nature, including my own. You all have provided absolutely nothing to indicate why you should be believed when you assert so arrogantly that you know you'll never participate in a barbaric act. We're just supposed to trust you, I guess, trust that, by amazing coincidence, EvC Forum has managed to attract every perfect human being on the internet. Lucky us!

Except, Asgara, I'm not the one who said that. In fact I specifically disagreed with that not more than 20 minutes ago. Faulting rape victims for not "being aware of their surroundings" isn't part of any feminism I've ever espoused. It's simply blaming rape victims for their rape.It's fine for you to disagree with me, I value as many different perspectives on this as possible, but if you're going to make this personal, make it about what Crash does and doesn't get, do you think it wouldn't be too much trouble for you to accurately represent my views as you disagree with them? Because he's being a concern troll. Because his entire contribution to this thread has been to try to construct a false parity between male and female propensity for violence to salve his ego. Because his entire argument boils down to nothing more than "sure, men might be responsible for 95% of violent crime; but I got flipped off by a woman, once."It's ridiculous and demeaning in a culture where sexism and sexual entitlement run rampant, and males are privileged over females at nearly every turn.Edited by crashfrog, : No reason given.

First, I did not say that you implied that rape victims were at fault for not being aware of their surroundings. My comments were in reference to others who bring it up being accused of faulting the rape victim.((adding missed quote by edit)) If that is how you've read what Archer wrote then there is a big problem in reading comprehension around here...whether yours or mine...but that is NOT what I got out of Archer's contributions in this thread.I wish I had more time this morning to finish this but hopefully I will be able to address it more fully when I get home this afternoon.Edited by Asgara, : No reason given.

I didn't say that's what Archer said. Look, read the thread if you want to participate. Nighttrain, message 182:

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If women are too naive or reluctant to learn the basics of self-defence and still venture into precarious situations, then who`s responsible?

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Maybe you're having difficulty since this is a rhetorical question? Let me spell it out to you - NT thinks the answer is "the stupid woman who couldn't be bothered to learn to fight physically stronger human beings almost twice her size and weight."

Ahhhh, but when I asked you if you would identify yourself as a potential rapist to a girl on a first date you said "no" because it could be "misinterpreted". Damn right it could! So therefore, we see that despite your posturing you have no more desire to identify yourself as a potential rapist than I do.Anyway, that wasn't main crux of my point. this was. See?Edited by RickJB, : No reason given.

Funny, I guess, that I've done exactly that several times now. But, you know, I guess that can just be another falsehood you tell yourself to feel better. I don't understand what you mean about "dividing groups." What makes you think that the groups aren't already divided? What makes you think that anything Schraf and I have said is divisive?These seem like nothing more than empty phrases you're throwing out, again all with an eye towards making yourself feel better. (Empty nonsense usually has that effect.)

There is no evidence that exists to this effect. No one is exactly like me. You may speak of this in terms of a tendancy in the general populace but can not accurately apply it to the individual. You have applied it to yourself and question your own character. That is your issue. In the case of physical abuse I do not question mine.

What's the best way help a kid in bad area from falling into crime?1. Ask him to identify himself as a potential criminal?
2. Provide him with the education to help him avoid criminality?Same with young men and rape? Yes?As for "making myself feel better". I'll say this again, so read it carefully lest you persist in misrepresenting me.I accept the potential in men (including myself) to commit acts such as rape. I do not accept that need for me to identify myself as a potential rapist any more than than a person of either sex feels the need to identify themselves as a potential murderer.

Remove the economic incentives to criminality. His personal attitude isn't predictive on the matter, to my understanding. Then I don't understand what we're arguing about. I don't believe I've ever said that men should be introducing themselves as potential rapists. It's my hope that those who realize their potential will be able to make the right choice in an ambiguous situation. It's my fear that those who don't see any potential in themselves for rape will rape, simply because they will take sexual advantage in an ambiguous situation, saying to themselves all the while "hey, I'm no rapist; therefore what I'm doing right now definately isn't rape."

What would you have done as the unwitting subject of the Milgram experiment?

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If that is how you've read what Archer wrote then there is a big problem in reading comprehension around here...whether yours or mine...but that is NOT what I got out of Archer's contributions in this thread.

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Here's what happened:I stated my controversial opinion that over 50% of young (American and Canadian) men would violently rape a woman if they could be assured of not getting caught. This opinion is based upon (replicated) research.Archer wrote back and basically said that everybody has a dark side that we all have a responsibility to counter it when we feel it coming to the fore, and that it's "falling into a trap" to forget that and to focus only on this rape thing.To me, that seemed very much like an attempt to say something like "hey, we're all capable of terrible things, therefore you shouldn't really pay much attention to those studies, becasue in an ideal world, we'd all counter our dark side."Or something like that. Then he kept pressing on about how women are aggressive too, like that has anything to do with rape.It seemed to me that he kept trying to change the subject away from that rather damning (yet well-supported) research finding about males' propensity to rape women.