What are the Degrees of Fundamentalism?

That's the version of literalism that arachnophilia uses. I rather like it myself. However, neither arachnophilia nor I are committed to scriptural inerrancy.For fundamentalists, the primary principle is inerrancy. Then one reads the scripture as straightforwardly as possible, provided that such a reading does not contradict inerrancy. Whenever there is a conflict, one must come up with contorted interpretations that preserve inerrancy. This doesn't actually work, of course, but if people are into self-delusion they are able to persuade themselves that it works.

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Compassionate conservatism - bringing you a kinder, gentler torture chamber

Many things are different from the Old Testament context of the Israelite theocracy, which I've many times discussed, and I already said I don't grasp the theology of the particular incidents you mentioned, but your entire MO seems to be to make accusatory digs and I get tired of it. I've said enough.

You forgot Those Who Work on the Sabbath, including gathering firewood.

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Many things are different from the Old Testament context of the Israelite theocracy, which I've many times discussed, and I already said I don't grasp the theology of the particular incidents you mentioned,

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I agree.Many things in the OT, when taken out of the context they were written in, do not make any sense....like the Flood. In the context in which that story was written, such a tale made sense. However, given the modern knowledge we have that the writers did not have, it does not from a literal, face value standpoint.I truly do not understand why you do not understand the theology of a long list of rules and laws about crimes and punishments. I wouldn't have thought that there was much theology in there, really. Nothing to interperet or figure out. It says, "if someone does X, they must die."...just like it says, in Genesis, "the Flood happened."So, please, tell me. Why are we to supposed make allowances for context with regards to "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live", but are not supposed to do so for the Flood story?

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but your entire MO seems to be to make accusatory digs and I get tired of it. I've said enough.

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If it is "accusatory" to point out the idiocy of rejecting the common sense definition of the word "literal" that normal people use, then I just don't know about this place.

When Jesus came, some of the commands to the Israelites stopped applying, some because Jesus fulfilled them, others because they only make sense in a theocracy which no longer exists, and not in a pluralistic society.In a theocracy, which is what the Puritans had for a while, there's a case that could be made for executing witches, even disobedient children, but I'm not sure I'd support it. This is where I'm not sure of the theology involved. After all we are to save people, not kill them, but on the other hand if the society allows dangerous influences the freedom to corrupt and threaten it, there won't be a theocracy left after a while, maybe not much of a coherent society of any kind if murderers are treated like guests of the state.I'm sure you don't see any danger in witchcraft, but it's something I'd have to ponder more. In any case I don't see how the law can be applied in a non-theocracy. I have theological questions about all of it.There is no change in context whatever that applies to the Flood. It's straightforward historical narrative. It's buttressed on both sides by very specific genealogies showing that it's grounded in real history. There is nothing fictional about it and it is not a law like the examples you gave. No comparison whatever.

It is our own spirit that what? Yes. Every conversation about Christianity does not have to be about fundamentalists Ringo. THere is a difference between believing in God, and being in touch with His Holy Spirit. I think People who have not experienced the Holy Spirit before will confuse that, and also not understand about it.However, I have always remained open minded about it all, and I always say the day I felt the Holy Spirit is either the day I went nutz, or the day I got a small taste of God. It's been 2.5 years since that time, and I will still favor on the side that it was, and is God. Whne it starts to not make sense, than I will say I went crazy. And your going to hell.But what does a Christian who is not a fundamentalist say?

Having the Holy Spirit Does give you an edge, but only if you follow it.We all have the Holy Spirit in the sense of conviction. It will be the Holy Spirit that convicts people, not us as Christians. It is an advice, thats all. An invitation to view things differently. I asked you to pray about it, so that God, and the Holy Spirit would hopefully confirm this for you, have you prayed about it? That is twice I asked you if you would. Or are you so set in your ways and convinced that you are right, that you will not be open to what God has to say to you about it?I also asked you (now 4 times) to back up your "prophetic warning" with scripture. No faith, it is juding. A warning will preceed the event. A prophet will be known by his/her accuracy, about events to come. I am sure no one here considers you a prophet. ( I am not a prophet either, but have not posted any of my prophetic visions yet, so I am not considered a prophet by anyone here )You on the other hand have seen something happened, and then labeled it as God's wrath and judgement. That means that all the people in it, have suffered God's wrath because God judged them. How can you make such a claim? Did you also believe that the people who died in Katrina went to Hell?You have judged it whether you think you did or not. That is what I want to bring to light.

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Exposing the lies, one truth at a time!

Except, of course, that the concept that the flood was 'world wide' has a lot of evidence against it, and as it is described in the book is physically impossible.But, other than that, let's see.. a 'world wide' flood' reaching to the highest mountains.. very grandiose to be sure. Historical account?? Nope.. not on that scale.

You came on like gangbusters giving orders out of the blue, and accusing me like any liberal atheist. You said "I want you to..." YOU want me to do this or that. I don't take orders from "Christians" who talk to me like that, who have no knowledge of me and no authority over me, and from what I've read you have a view of scripture and the Christian life that I disagree with on many points so there are no grounds for me to regard you as a Christian advisor at all. What presumption. I am not answerable to you about anything that I do. It is not your place to tell me what to do. You have NO authority and no credibility. I don't owe you that either. You just come on ordering me around and I don't owe you any justification of my actions, not somebody with your attitude, your presumption and your views of scripture with which I disagree. Arguing with you about the scripture I base this on would be fruitless because you seem to think that Jesus had to say something directly for it to be valid and from Him, which pre-empts any other understanding of scripture, and I don't want to get into that long argument. Prophecy refers to speaking from God, it does not even usually mean foretelling. Most of the prophets simply spoke to the people about their violations of God's laws and the consequences that were written in Deuteronomy and Leviticus of such disobedience. Interpreting events in the light of scripture is prophetic. The warning is in the fact that God's judgments call for repentance, and if repentance does not follow, more will come. And saying more will come is a form of foretelling too. That is the warning. Why don't you read what I write? You are just making it all up. I've said already that the people who died are not necessarily the target of the judgment, and that MANY WERE NO DOUBT SAVED. I have refused to judge the individuals. My emphasis has been on the implications for the entire nation and I have never said anything else. I have pointed out that we all die and there is no necessary or obvious implication about why in how it happens, and that Jesus said clearly that the ones suffering in a disaster are no more sinful than the rest of us. But apparently you didn't bother to read any of that. Take your "light" elsewhere. I don't regard it as light. And keep your eyes open. More judgment of the nation is coming.{Edit: I take much of my authority for what I've said, at least about 9/11, from pastors I admire who preached the same message when it happened. And any pastor with an understanding of the sovereignty of God knows that nothing happens against His will. You are no pastor. I would also refer you to Jonathan Edwards, and in fact Martin Luther or any preacher of the Reformation, for authority to preach the Law for the conviction of sin as necessary groundwork for evangelism. I would also again mention Ray Comfort as a current evangelist who preaches to convict. Sometimes a defense from scripture is asking too much, pages of commentary, but this many eminent Christian authorities should suffice well enough to answer your accusations.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

We're talking about Biblical context, not the vaporings of present-day armchair scientists about how it couldn't have happened.

Give us a break, Faith! Vaporings? Present-day? Armchair? Three strikes and you're out, lady! It's two centuries' worth of hard work by folks that got their hands dirty in places like Greenland and the Himilayas....

They're wrong. But I don't care. The subject is the context of scripture, not science.

Did you read the OP? Or even the title? This conversation is specifically about fundamentalism. How do you expect me to discuss fundamentalism without mentioning fundamentalists?(I'm leaving off answering some of your off-topic comments that are not about fundamentalism. ) As I said in Message 50, "A theist says, "My spirit comes from God." You can feel free to lump the other Christians in with the theists. Notice that it is "my spirit" that comes from God. It is not an external spirit whispering in my ear. Fundamentalists often misunderstand that and think the voices in their heads come from God.

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I don't expect you to, that is why I have asked you (now 4? times) to pray about it, and ask God Himself. Have you? I would think that if you are the Christian you claim to be, you would at least ask God. Yes you do, otherwise everything you say is BS. You claim to be better "grounded in scripture" than me. You could be grounded all you like, but if you don't have a personal relationship with God, and confer with Him in everything you do, then you are not worshiping Him in spirit and truth. It's just your interpretation, or what was taught to you. I don't think that at all. So then you have looked at the whole scenerio that is Katrina, and you knew everyone who died personally, and now have made a judgement that it was God's wrath, and decided to tell us all of how God is killing off Americans with Hurricanes.Or did God come to you in a vision and tell you this?Or are you just using your own personal knowledge of scripture, comparing it to a natural hurricane, that Jesus said would happen, and calling it God's wrath?Which is it? So now you are claiming that God kills innocent people so that the rest of the nation is warned? About what? What is the warning?The only warning I could possibly think of, is that we were given the earth to take care of, and we are screwing it up with global warming, making the hurricanes stronger than ever. So you have judged it. You have labeled it a judgement, from God. Revelation 20:4
I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge.Jude 1:14-16
14Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men: "See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones 15to judge everyone, and to convict all the ungodly of all the ungodly acts they have done in the ungodly way, and of all the harsh words ungodly sinners have spoken against him." 16These men are grumblers and faultfinders; they follow their own evil desires; they boast about themselves and flatter others for their own advantage.1 Peter 4:6
For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to men in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit.James 4:12
There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you”who are you to judge your neighbor?Sorry faith, I don't care how educated you are in scripture, Jesus was sent to save the world, not judge it. God will judge it, in the end. If you could break away from being such a judge, then there is freedom waiting for you. Maybe you know not what you do.I respect your faith and everything, but I am pleading with you to pray about it. Let God show you. You are obviously getting these judgements from God, no? So God talks to you, I guess, ask Him.

Are you proud of this kind of misrepresentation? I guess you have no interest in understanding what I've said about this. Or no ability to follow a line of reasoning. I told you how I arrived at it.Is God in charge of Nature or not? Is God omnipotent or not? What sort of God are you following?I have no need to justify anything to you. Who made you my judge?{By the way: I know you have the Holy Spirit because I feel His presence in some things you say. But that doesn't make you right about everything by a long shot, and you are very wrong about this}Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.