Why is Israel getting away with these atrocities?

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If the attack had been the detonation of a nuclear device I would contend that Afghanistan (and possibly Iraq) would have suffered nuclear retaliation - and in the case of the former with some justification.

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The justification being that civilization depends on answering atrocities in kind?

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"These monkeys are at once the ugliest and the most beautiful creatures on the planet./ And the monkeys don't want to be monkeys; they want to be something else./ But they're not."
-- Ernie Cline

Ha ha. I wasn't planning on participating on this thread; I was just going to write that one post and leave it at that. But I have had so few opportunities to exchange posts with you lately....

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"These monkeys are at once the ugliest and the most beautiful creatures on the planet./ And the monkeys don't want to be monkeys; they want to be something else./ But they're not."
-- Ernie Cline

All it would take is more nuclear power among the Arab nations and the US to abandon Israel, which is what you all want us to do. It really doesn't take much. It isn't just in numbers of deaths. A lot of little hits will do it. Traffic deaths don't affect the economy for instance, but a terrorist attack does. The airlines are still reeling economically from 9/11. Gas prices have gradually been going up since then. Of course it took Katrina to bring about the current highs. But that's the point, it doesn't take a whole lot. That was Buz's point. The big western powers are restrained. It isn't about numbers. It's about who's in the right and about world opinion. Israel IS rational and restrained. If they weren't, nobody in the area would be safe. Just as nobody is safe from North Korea. Or suicide bombers.

You didn't answer the question. What ended the terrorism of the IRA?Or are you claiming they are not terrorists because they yada yada? Conquest of their nation and defeat of their army.Where is the nation of terrorism to attack? Where is the army to defeat?Better analogy? No, because it fails at the critical point to be adaptable to ending terrorism: if you can't even attack terrorism the way Germany was defeated the analogy is useless.Enjoy.

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The NATIONS are Islamic fundamentalist nations committed to the destruction of Israel, the free West and ultimately the planet.Their armies to defeat are the ununiformed slithering shadowy and cowardly highly organized guerilla forces including heads of state, mosque imams, and the hoards of trained soldiers in civilian clothes, barracked in homes, caves, businesses and mosques, et al, armed with finances, weapons and explosives by their leaders, both secular and clerical in and out of government, seeking each and every opportunity to strike men women and children wherever the next vulnerable opportunity arises so as to destroy the maximum amount of property and life possible of all who are not of their persuasion and not supportive of their goal of ultimate global conquest.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

No, it's projection of human nature. Palestinians are human beings are they not? It seems the Temple Mount was a key sticking point. Yes, I thought Arafat waking away like he did was a mistake. His leaving the talks left a political opening for Sharon to tour of the Temple Mount, and to demonstrate his own rejection for Barak's position. The Palestinian demonstrations that followed were clearly the spark for the current intifada. I won't argue for a second that the suicide-bombing tactic was/is justified. It has seriously hurt the Palestinian cause. But from a Palestinian point of view, when one has a God but lacks jets, tanks and rockets it might seem like a "rational" way to fight back - clearly it isn't, no argument. Doesn't the lack of clarity on this point tell you something? The true extent of Hamas and other groups is indeed blended into the population at large - they represent a civilian-based resistance. When Israel strikes back it inevitably ends up targeting civilians...But let me be clear in this - I have sympathy for both sides of the argument. I have no desire to represent the situation as a good guy/bad guy scenario.However, I do feel that in this instance Israel is needlessly escalating the entire conflict for the sake of ONE prisoner. No "rational" military tactician would ever suggest such a thing.Edited by RickJB, : No reason given.Edited by RickJB, : No reason given.Edited by RickJB, : No reason given.

If you really believe that, you should be writing your congressman and demanding that congress declare war on these nations.

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Regime change in Washington, congressional elections Nov. 2006

Of course, Israel's jets, tanks and rockets could do a whole lot more than what they do. They could do to the Palestinians supportive of the Jihadists what the Palestinians WISH to do to Israel, i.e. anhilate them, but they don't. They only act after the Jihadists strike them, so if the Palestinian government and religious leaders would stop indoctrinating Jihadists from kindegarten on up to be terrorists and cease from encouraging and supporting terrorism, the killing would stop from both directions, with the jets, tanks and rockets parked in their warehouses and hangers.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

You have omitted the fact that religious extremism been fuelled (on both sides, I might add) in response to the conflict.We have a feedback loop, so to speak.Edited by RickJB, : No reason given.

If it really were just human nature there would be no argument. But you, as so many do, completely overlook the factor of ideology, which is why projecting your human feelings onto the Palestinian situation doesn't work. The whole Palestinian position against Israel is ideological. This situation is not driven by the usual human reactions, though no doubt those are present as well. The human problems there are a consequence of the ideology, and it drives their decisions, which you've agreed are irrational. No doubt Israel has done many wrong things, but if you don't recognize the ideology-driven nature of the Arab/Muslim hatred of Israel all your analyses of the situation will be false.

Actually this is an incorrect analysis. That is part of the propaganda that fuels the ideology -- the religious extremism -- that really drives the conflict. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

...it just keeps going and going and going.Seriously now, of all the fruitless topics we have here at EvC, what ranks higher than all of the boogie-man-moslem topic?Even when it is not the ACTUAL topic, like this one for example, it alwasy seems to end up as a place for the paraniod rantings of the other abrahamic faiths.Take the last time we visited this for example. I seem to recall it going something like this.Faith: The Koran says to kill all the Jews!
Jazzns: Uh, no it doesn't. Show us where.
Faith: ...
Jazzns: Still waiting.
Faith: ...
Jazzns: Um, did you mean this oft trotted out "war" verse? Notice how it doesn't say anything about the Jews and also how in context it is way different? Did you mean this one?
Faith: ...
Jazzns: So when you going to find that verse huh?
Faith: I'll get back to you...Thread gets closed, new one starts, "blah blah ideology blah blah", "blah blah religious imperialism blah blah", rest and repeat.Is anyone else a little tired of this crap?Edited by Jazzns, : No reason given.

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Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

Why would we tire of it?This is where the fundy contingent demonstrate that their faith is not in God. Rather, they are beholden to modern right wing cultic leaders who are feeding them this crap.Whatever happened to matt 5:44 "But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;"

I guess for me I get tired of it because they express their political and religious opinion tantamount to fact. While I suppose this is no different then in the "science-ish" discussion that go on here, at least in that arena the raw scientific ignorance is so glaring that I don't worry about how that is going to come across to the reader.Anyone who wants to go investigate these claims can go to google and will turn up any number of anti-Islam sites that simply regurgitate themselves like one big circle-jerk.Anything that is an attack upon the faith is met with fierce vitrol that includes Islam and evolution. Anti-evolution retorts just so happen to have the dying urgency al-la flat earth while violence within Islam is a very tenious geo-political problem at the moment. It is much easier to convert people into Islam haters that it is to creationism. IMO. Christian principles tend to be thrown out the window when one feels the faith is under attack. Ironic a bit I suppose. I am guilty of it as much as anyone.

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Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

What can be MORE human than ideology?Isn't your own Christian ideology a big part of how you view and live your life? Doesn't it play a large part in how you relate to other people? As is your position against the Palestinians!Round and round the circle goes, just like the conflict....Edited by RickJB, : No reason given.