"...except in the case of rape or incest."

I disagree. I feel that I am more morally obligated to help someone who gets screwed over than some who screws up themselves. But the people who are strongly opposed to abortion consider the fetus a member of society and the abortion of that fetus murder. I would agree with this, like I’ve type before, if a woman is pregnant and an anti-abortion law becomes effective. But, if the law is in place already and she knew before she got pregnant that if she did she would not be allowed to have an abortion, then the responsibility is removed from the society and placed on the mother. Which is why the phrase “except in cases of rape or incest” should be included in an anti-abortion law.

But it IS a result of the choices you make. Yeah, so when you have sex and you don’t want to get pregnant, you should be careful about it. And if abortion is illegal, then you should be even that much more careful, as one of the methods of dealing with the pregnancy is removed. But if that method has been removed, I don’t think that the rest of the society should pick up the slack in the responsibility. The people having sex should be more responsible.Now I realize that you can be the most careful possible and still get pregnant. That is one of the risks you take, and should understand, when having sex. If abortion is made illegal, you should understand that sex has become more risky, and be more responsible, not put the responsibility on someone else. I don’t know. Surely we have some method of determining when a person has been raped in the judicial system. Some method could be created but I cannot present one. The illegality would prevent the abortions, that phrase would allow them. I don’t think it would allow that many though. Its not like your gonna say, “Oh damn, baby, you’re pregnant. Let’s just tell them that I raped you so we can get an abortion.”

So the Patriot Act was passed and allowed for people to get searched for 'reasonable suspicion’ instead of ”reasonable cause’. Now, lets say someone gets searched for terrorist suspicion but they only find illegal drugs. Should society take on some of the responsibility of that person because it got harder to carry drugs around or should that person be more careful when carrying drugs?

If you’re down in East St. Louis at 3 o’clock in the morning and you get mugged by a crack dealer you’re going to get a lot less sympathy than if a crack dealer mugs you in front of your house in Columbia, MO. You made some poor choices that resulted in you getting mugged and the rest of society is less responsible for your protection if you are putting yourself in dangerous situations. The problem is that some people see abortion as murdering a person. But you should still stay out of E’Saint at 3 am . . No, you shouldn’t put the responsibility on people who are staying out of the hood. I’m wasn’t saying it was the best way. I don’t know how that would be handled and I’m not prepared to come up with a way to do it. Neither of those are true. I think it would. They wouldn’t be criminals if they didn’t break the law. There’s a lot of loop-holes in our laws.

That sometimes your options are limited and society doesn’t pick up the slack.

If someone steps on a knife that shouldn’t have been there, they are less responsible for being cut than a guy juggling knives. It does matter how it came about, as it matters if the woman was raped or not.

But its not about them being less of a member of society. Its about aborting the child as being the lesser of two evils versus forcing a woman who was raped to have the kid.ABE:If a woman gets pregnant as a result of her actions, then I dont think abortion is the answer. But if someone forces her to get pregnant, then they've removed her responsibility and she should not be forced to be pregnant. Its not that a child that is the product of rape is less a member of society so its ok to abort it.This message has been edited by Catholic Scientist, 03-20-2006 01:27 PM

The people who think abortion should be illegal consider the fetus to be a member of society and consider the abortion of that fetus to be murder.

Give them the help they need.

I wonder if there would be any difference in the court cases for the situations I described... Agreed. But in actuality, I think the difference would present itself.

Well we can just stop right there. There's no reason to continue discussing this. There's no way those cases would not be different and the explanation would be off topic. There was a little more to it than that.

My position has been reworded to fit metaphors, takin out of context, and had words added.Its hard for me to even see what position I'm defending anymore.

I don't think that.

But I didn't even say that.

Well something went wrong somewhere. But you're wrong about my position. I already said that I think that abortion should be legal. I also said, well...typed, that if abortion was made illegal, then I understand why the case of rape would be excluded. It is because the woman was not responsible for getting pregnant and forcing her to keep that pregnancy is less worse than aborting the child. If the woman is responsible for getting pregnant and abortions are illegal, then I don't think that society is obligated to take responsibility for her pregnancy because of the illegality of abortion.