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Author Topic:   Are creationists returning to their YEC roots?
nwr
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Posts: 6412
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 2 of 167 (291918)
03-03-2006 7:19 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Percy
03-03-2006 11:17 AM


There has certainly been an increase recently. It's a bit early to decide if this is a trend or just part of the normal ups and downs.
I haven't noticed a similar change at the usenet talk.origins group.

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nwr
Member
Posts: 6412
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 30 of 167 (350273)
09-19-2006 11:28 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by PaulK
09-19-2006 11:20 AM


If ID isn't "anti evolution" then can you tell me why ID proponents spend more time attacking evolution than developing their own proposals ?
Perhaps a bit unfair. The majority of people who consider themselves ID proponents are likely either deists or theistic evolutionists, and they do not spend any time attacking evolution, nor do they try to inject their ID views into the classroom.

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nwr
Member
Posts: 6412
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 34 of 167 (350331)
09-19-2006 2:01 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by PaulK
09-19-2006 11:58 AM


quote:
Perhaps a bit unfair. The majority of people who consider themselves ID proponents are likely either deists or theistic evolutionists, and they do not spend any time attacking evolution, nor do they try to inject their ID views into the classroom.
I would like to know which ID proponents you have in mind. Certainly not Jonathan Wells, or Michael Behe or William Dembski or Philip Johnson - or David Berlinski.
Your earlier post was a response to GDR. There must be many like him who believe that there was an intelligent designer, but who do not attack evolution.
Indeed it seems that the original point of ID is to get its ideas into schools.
Come now. There were people who believed in an intelligent designer, long before Philip Johnson was born.
Sure, ID as a right wing political movement is new and dishonest. But when most people hear the term "ID" they think of it as belief that there was an intelligent designer. Such a belief, if not connected to the political movement, is innocuous. Those in the political movement were cunning when they chose the term "ID". Let's avoid falling into the trap they have set for us, by clearly distinguishing who we mean and not giving a blanket condemnation to all who would believe in an intelligent designer.

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nwr
Member
Posts: 6412
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 55 of 167 (350783)
09-20-2006 6:31 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by mick
09-20-2006 4:26 AM


Re: ID in philosophy class
There is an article describing the California "Philosophy of Design" class, recently dropped, at ars technica. Here is a copy of the syllabus:
A philosophy class in high school is almost certainly an elective. Moreover, it is an elective that very few students will elect to take. Thus it is certain to be dropped.
The only purpose in offering such a class is to impress some grandstanding politicians.

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nwr
Member
Posts: 6412
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 126 of 167 (352071)
09-25-2006 10:59 AM
Reply to: Message 124 by Nimrod
09-25-2006 4:16 AM


Re: O and on the "too many things" that "dont belong"
They honestly seem to make a powerful case that all the variation(evolution) we see is minor and caused by a loss of information not an addition of info.
They make a flimsy case based on rhetoric, the use of tactical vagueness (a refusal to define their terms), and misrepresentation.

Compassionate conservatism - bringing you a kinder, gentler torture chamber

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nwr
Member
Posts: 6412
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 143 of 167 (352801)
09-28-2006 10:13 AM
Reply to: Message 141 by Nimrod
09-28-2006 9:28 AM


Re: From what I understand....
The Status Quo of public school policies in the USA is generally what Creationists prefer.It mostly protects Christianity or Creationism from being bashed (or even coming up)by non-Christian teachers.The way Evolution is presently taught, in (U.S.of)American public schools, almost gurantees that students wont ever think of it having anything to do with the issue of the Bible.It is sort of a wall of protection for students from non-Christian(and non-Jew,etc.)teachers.
I agree with that.
But then,if the teacher is a Creationist, then the teacher can discuss the Science text book's material however he or she wants to.
But there, I disagree.
Sure, the creationist teacher can state that he/she is a creationist, and doesn't personally accept ToE. But he cannot actively teach that evolution is wrong. There is a curriculum, and the teacher is expected to teach that curriculum. If his own beliefs prevent him/her from teaching the curriculum, he should insist that he not be assigned to teach the class that deals with evolution.
Note: the "can" and "cannot" above are not comments on legality (which would mostly be case law). Rather, they are comments on what I would consider ethical for a teacher.

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nwr
Member
Posts: 6412
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 149 of 167 (355342)
10-09-2006 7:43 AM
Reply to: Message 148 by 2ice_baked_taters
10-09-2006 4:13 AM


Learning
schrafinator writes:
Why not provide your definition?
The passing along of information.
I disagree.
Computers are far better than we of passing along information. Yet they appear unable to learn.
Maybe try some of the writings of Piaget.

Compassionate conservatism - bringing you a kinder, gentler torture chamber

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