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Author Topic:   Why TOE is not accepted
Rahvin
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Posts: 4046
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 8.3


Message 89 of 318 (227599)
07-29-2005 8:21 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by randman
07-29-2005 8:09 PM


Re: Looking into the evidence
Creationists argue species can and do arise via evolution but are limited to a certain natural limit based on their potential existing genome. The idea is that new information cannot really be added, just modified. So you could have one common cat ancestor as an explanation for all cats today, although I think the argument is there were 2 cat kinds, since the Sabre-tooth tiger was considered to have stemmed from a different ancestor.
This is conceivably true within a short timeframe. A land mammal is not going to suddenly evolve into a fish over a few gernerations, for instance. Ther genetic code is just too different.
What creationists don't seem to understand is that we are talking about millions of generations, not just a few. Ever played Telephone? Your message is usually pretty distorted at the end of the line from tiny differences along the way. Imagine a game of telephone millions of people long, that branches at every link (symbolizing multiple offspring). At the end of these chains, how different do you think the messages would be from the original? How different would they be from each other? This would be an imperfect analogy to evolution (there is no selection, so all species survive), but it does demonstrate the sheer amount of difference that can result from millions of imperfect copies.

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 Message 88 by randman, posted 07-29-2005 8:09 PM randman has not replied

Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4046
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 8.3


Message 223 of 318 (228456)
08-01-2005 12:31 PM
Reply to: Message 212 by Faith
08-01-2005 11:30 AM


Re: ID is Political
UNLESS... it is in fact TRUE that no apparent, perceived or claimed evidence in any field, including history and chronology, can be valid if it contradicts the Scriptural record.
And it is.
And some day you'll know it.
That's like saying that the sky cannot possibly be blue, despite what we see, becuase an old book specifically states that it's pink. And someday you'll see that you were wrong all along.
Why would God create the universe in such a way as to lie to us, Faith?
But the real point is that you have zero evidence to back up such a claim. You have nothing except an old book you take as literal truth to show that the world is the way you think it is. Science has observable evidence. The Bible and science don't even have to come into conflict if you take a non-literallist interpretation of the Bible. Why should we disbelieve what our senses and reason tell us, in favor of an old book that you and a few others put total faith in?

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 Message 212 by Faith, posted 08-01-2005 11:30 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
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Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4046
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 8.3


Message 317 of 318 (229251)
08-03-2005 2:31 PM
Reply to: Message 316 by robinrohan
08-03-2005 1:55 PM


Re: where's the evidence?
I don't see what's irrational about saying "there's no conceivable way the antlers could have evolved." Now, in point of fact, I disagree with Faith, but how is saying that a fallacy?
It's irrational because she doesn't give any kind of reason to PROVE that it was impossible. She expects her opinion on the matter to carry the weight of fact.
Saying "There is no conceivable way that the Earth holds me down with some invisible field called gravity which is a property of all mass," does not cause me to float away from the Earth. Another example of this would be, "1+1=2! That's the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard!"
Just becuase she doesn't understand it or accept the evidence doesn't make it not true. Technically this is an Appeal to Ridicule fallacy.

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