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Author Topic:   Animal Intelligence and Evolution/Creation
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 4 of 102 (184696)
02-12-2005 8:43 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Aximili23
02-12-2005 7:29 AM


My question is, does this research pose a problem for theists in general, and creationists in particular?
No,no problem what so ever.
If not, how does one reconcile such research with their religious beliefs?
I assume you're asking in relation to the Genesis tales, so if I'm wrong please let me know.
Genesis is a collection of human centric tales and myths. Naturally they revolve around us as the central and important characters. But there is nothing there that in anyway implies that everything else is dumb or lacks intelligence.
There is the section in Genesis that you didn't quote which is the second half of Genesis one verse 26 where it gives man dominion over all the critters.
26: And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
In my opinion the term "dominion" in that part should be more stewardship or as we and the other critters evolve, perhaps even mentoring.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Aximili23, posted 02-12-2005 7:29 AM Aximili23 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Aximili23, posted 02-12-2005 10:55 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 6 of 102 (184712)
02-12-2005 1:29 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Aximili23
02-12-2005 10:55 AM


Well, you are punching a whole host of hot buttons for some folk, that's for sure.
For example, I have heard it stated before that only humans have souls.
Yup, I'm sure that many would say that. I always ask them to show where the Bible or Christian theology shows that ONLY humans might have souls. So far no one has succeeded in convincing me that soul is a wholly human attribute. Why shouldn't other critters have souls? Heaven without dogs, cats, birds, snake or spiders would be sadly lacking.
And I've received the impression that a dominant feature in Christian faith (for some) is that man is special.
We'll that's true. It's a human centric creation. But then so is society in general. That's why it's so hard to get things like the endagered species legislation passed. Folk see humans and human needs and desires as somewhat more important than those of other species. Why is it surprising that religion is also human centric?
This is part of why there are objections to evolution; some feel that humankind could not have evolved from apes.
I think that's true. Many folk do find the idea of being descended from some other primate line offensive. I don't understand their problems but they do feel that way. Silly, isn't it. Yet often they'll be proud that some ancestor or the other was a horse thief or desperado.
But research in animal intelligence challenges this notion. For one thing, it suggests that the only difference is a matter of degree.
I believe that's correct, there is a difference of degree. I've posted elsewhere on this board that I believe humans are unique in four areas, extent, intent, scope and empathy.
We are unique in the extent of how we use our intellect. We can imagine things far in the future and wonder about things not even visible to the human eye. We wonder about things that don't even directly effect our existence.
We are unique in intent. We can imagine and do things that will not come to fruition even in our lifetimes. We can do great works or great harm in a magnitude far beyond anything nature can produce. Others have pointed out that mosquitos can cause deaths from malaria but that is not the mosquitos intent. It just wants to feed and breed. Others have said that plate techtonics can move whole continenets, and that's certainly true. But that's not the earth's intent, it is simply the result of natural forces.
We are unique in the scope of what we can do. We can actually send a probe to other worlds and gather back data. We can cure many deseases and set broken bones. We can build cathedrals and paint masterpieces.
And finally, I believe we are unique in our empathy. We can worry about people we have never met, about the lives of those not yet born, about other species and their well being.
It's possible that we differ only in degree when it comes to these four traits, but I believe even the most ardent atheist would agree that humans are unique in at least the potential in those areas.
They also raise the idea that animals may in the far future evolve to become as intelligent as us, if not moreso. And the number of intelligent species is surprising; dogs, primates, dolphins, birds, and squid/octopuses all display surprisingly high degrees of intelligence.
I believe that is certainly possible. And as that happens, I really hope that we might adopt the true role of mentor where the teacher learns from the student. What wonderful new ideas might come from that?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Aximili23, posted 02-12-2005 10:55 AM Aximili23 has not replied

  
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