The lies behind the Miller experiment

Please point to the element that calls Jesusfreak a liar - if not retract your allegation.

WillowTree's posting privileges are permanently suspended.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

That's pretty much the case. JF is either a student or teacher at Colorado Springs Christian School which is a very large fundamentalist primary school with multiple campuses. As a student there he is operating at a severe disadvantage since a lot of material is denied him as a matter of policy.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Yikes! Even though we have had our differences I never wanted to get you suspended.Just for clarification, I never called JF a liar. I said in my post that either he:a) Found himself to be me mistaken and is embarrassed.
b) Is lying either unintentionally or intentionally.
c) Actually has the quote and is for some reason not posting it.One of these things is true and only JF can tell us which. In either case, admitting to a or b, or rectifying c will gain him respect with his fellow posters I believe.Be well WT and goodbye,

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-Nasser

quote:

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If JF isn't lying, it would make more sense that the author(s) and publishers are not part of mainstream science.

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I would send an email regardless. Anything put forth as science is going to be treated equally, regardless of the opinions of the publishers or authors. It is a possibility that JF is reading a creationist science text book, but regardless bad science is bad science and should be confronted.

Where did you come across this info?

Somehow I doubt you'd be the first.

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Hate world.Revenge soon!

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Just for clarification, I never called JF a liar.

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I think all of us here, with a few minor exceptions, understood that you were not calling JF a liar. In fact, you were trying to prevent it from happening. I think we are battling a removal of Common Sense.

Now you know I can't tell you all my secrets, but you'd be amazed at what can be learned about someone these days.AbEDo you know anyone that posts from Illinois State University?This message has been edited by jar, 11-18-2004 03:00 PM

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

If that's the case - I'd be interested to see what they teach in those places.

It is interesting because they do not post their curiculum. They do post their core beliefs though.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Are you god?Added by edit.Perhaps I should clarify myself. I came up with an idea that one of us might be god. You know, the guy with white beard and hair and sits on the cloud with a computer playing around with us. For a time, I thought Brad McFall might be god. Well, I guess Jar might very well be the figure I've been talking about. Maybe he's laughing at the atheists like me right now saying, "ha, these puny mortals are going to be so surprised when they die."This message has been edited by Lam, 11-18-2004 04:14 PM

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Hate world.Revenge soon!

Also notice that they are not an acredited institution (.org instead of .edu).

As an admin you have access to our IP addresse's. A simple 'whois' on the IP, or even a tracerout will give you the originating server. Some IP's are more difficult to track. Like right now, my IP will likely reveal my place of work, but at home, since I am behind a router, and a serverside firewall it may be more difficult without some serious trouble.Though you could likely descern the general area in which I live Which I would like the Admins to keep private thank you.

Your point is well-taken Jazzns. One of the sources of conflict I see regularly on this forum is the distinction being being misinformed vs a liar. I see many shades of grey along the path of intellectual dishonesty. The beginning argument (the point being made) is based on trusting an unreliable source. Then to defend that argument comes the fabrication of first hand knowledge ("I read it..." "I saw that..." etc). This, while academically very dishonest, is based upon strong faith in the credibility of their sources.I might say, "George W Bush is the president of the United States" and I know this because "I went to the White House and saw him". I never went to the White House, but I am pretty sure that any independant verification of my first claim would be prove true. If, however, I listen to some off-the-wall talk radio show I might say "Kofi A. Annan is the president of the US and George Bush was replaced by an imposter" and I know this "Because I went to the White House and saw it" then I could be shown to be wrong. I might believe the first statement with all of my heart, but the fact is I am inadvertantly repeating a lie, then contributing to that lie by linking it to my own credibility.I believe that people like Morris, Gish, and Hamm inspire a great deal of confidence in their followers. So when the statement is made that the Miller experiment was proven false, fraudulent, etc. yet is still being used to prove evolution some people have no reason to doubt these claims. Rather than saying, "I saw a Ken Hamm video and he said..." the temptation is to say "I looked at my kid's textbook and saw...". The first claim invites the counter argument that the person has been misinformed while the second forces the counter-argument that the person is dishonest (which few of us want to accuse anyone of being).