EvC Forum: Is man inherently good or inherently evil?

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Topic: Is man inherently good or inherently evil?

riVeRraT

Member (Idle past 446 days)

Posts: 5788

From: NY USA

Joined: 05-09-2004

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Message 237 of 271 (155387)
11-03-2004 8:05 AM

Reply to: Message 234 by Rrhain
11-03-2004 2:54 AM

It's called "rhetoric," riVeRraT. It's to show just how poorly argued your point is. If you cannot handle it, then you should seriously consider bowing out.

Rhetoric is not part of a constructive conversation, or an intelligent one. Funny, in the definition of rhetoric, I find the word insincere, which by definition can be hypocrytical. So congrats, you just admitted to all three of my claims against you.

Main Entry: rhetoric
Pronunciation: 're-t&-rik
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English rethorik, from Middle French rethorique, from Latin rhetorica, from Greek rhEtorikE, literally, art of oratory, from feminine of rhEtorikos of an orator, from rhEtOr orator, rhetorician, from eirein to say, speak -- more at WORD
1 : the art of speaking or writing effectively: as a : the study of principles and rules of composition formulated by critics of ancient times b : the study of writing or speaking as a means of communication or persuasion
2 a : skill in the effective use of speech b : a type or mode of language or speech; also : insincere or grandiloquent language
3 : verbal communication : DISCOURSE

Main Entry: insincere
Pronunciation: "in-sin-'sir, -s&n-
Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin insincerus, from in- + sincerus sincere
: not sincere : HYPOCRITICAL
- insincerely adverb
- insincerity /-'ser-&-tE also -'sir-/ noun

You respond with a post that boils down to, "Liar, liar, liar, liar, liar, pants-on-fire" and you claim you aren't stirred up with anger?

Grow up, child. It's called a "spine." I highly recommend you getting one.

Proved my point again, beatiful, I'm done.

Admins, is rhetoric part of this forum rule?

Respect for others is the rule here. Argue the position, not the person. The Britannica says, "Usually, in a well-conducted debate, speakers are either emotionally uncommitted or can preserve sufficient detachment to maintain a coolly academic approach."

A coolly academic approach?

This message has been edited by riVeRraT, 11-03-2004 08:07 AM

This message is a reply to:
	Message 234 by Rrhain, posted 11-03-2004 2:54 AM		Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
	Message 240 by Rrhain, posted 11-05-2004 3:08 AM		riVeRraT has replied

riVeRraT

Member (Idle past 446 days)

Posts: 5788

From: NY USA

Joined: 05-09-2004

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Message 241 of 271 (156136)
11-05-2004 8:04 AM

Reply to: Message 238 by Rrhain
11-05-2004 2:51 AM

Re: Back up

Therefore, for Jesus to claim to be god proves that he could not possibly be the Messiah. Anyone who claims otherwise is violating the primary concept of Judaism: One god.

Ha! Concept. So God is a concept now.

You seem to be confusing the word "deny" with "persecute." The fact that Jews do not accept Jesus as the Messiah is not persecution.

Jews are not refusing to accept the divinity of Jesus out of spite.

No they do it out of fear. Fear of losing power and control, the same as 2,000 years ago.

In other words, Jesus isn't god. Jesus can't be god. If Jesus were god, that would violate the very first commandment. You really have no idea what Judaism is, do you? But then again, how can you when you readily admit that you haven't even bothered to read the Old Testament?

The LORD God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them. 22 And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil.

Like one of us.

Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness,

Our

Doesn't sound like one God to me. Not to mention that the three are one, so if you believe in Jesus, you still believe in one God.

Apparently, it makes a great deal of difference to you. You're the one who keeps calling Jews fools for not accepting Jesus.

Being fooled, and never being taught the truth, is not being a fool.
The Jews I have spoken with are forbidden to even talk about Jesus. This order comes from their rabbi. They never discuss him, ever. So how would you get to know him?

Question: Does being married to a Jew make you a Jew?

Does being a Jew make you not a Jew?
What the heck is your point? The articla cleary states, for the 3rd time, that there are Jews involved, as well as people who are married to Jews.

As I have said more than once comparing Orthodox Christianity to Catholicism: All the ritual, twice the guilt!

I will agree with you there. I am not to fond of Catholism either.
Even if the Jews do not accept JfJ, which is fine by me, there still are people who are Jewish, that are not Jewish by marraige, but by birth that belong to it. That would mean that at leas some of them are genuin, that is what I am trying to tell you, if you haven't got it yet.

God isn't here to tell us.

But the Holy Spirit is. Tell me, have you ever felt the Holy Spirit? Have you decided it was fake?

"Moot." The word is "moot." It is pronounced like what you would normally associate with a cow but with a /t/ on the end. Not "myoot." "Mute" means "silent." "Moot" means "worthy of discussion but not capable of actual effect." That's why lawyers go to "moot court." The cases being argued are highly valuable and you need to go through them in order to understand the issues involved. However, the results will not change anything. It is argument for enlightenment's sake.

Thank you.

I do appreciate more direct responses to, thanks. I have no problem debating with you, or even learning a few things from you. My mind is not closed. As long as we keep the conversations real.

This message is a reply to:
	Message 238 by Rrhain, posted 11-05-2004 2:51 AM		Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
	Message 258 by Rrhain, posted 11-07-2004 5:09 PM		riVeRraT has replied

riVeRraT

Member (Idle past 446 days)

Posts: 5788

From: NY USA

Joined: 05-09-2004

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Message 242 of 271 (156138)
11-05-2004 8:07 AM

Reply to: Message 240 by Rrhain
11-05-2004 3:08 AM

I'm not the one condemning people to hell and calling Jews idiots.

Sure you are rice-a-roni boy.

This message is a reply to:
	Message 240 by Rrhain, posted 11-05-2004 3:08 AM		Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
	Message 243 by AdminNosy, posted 11-05-2004 10:25 AM	riVeRraT has replied
	Message 259 by Rrhain, posted 11-07-2004 5:16 PM	riVeRraT has replied

riVeRraT

Member (Idle past 446 days)

Posts: 5788

From: NY USA

Joined: 05-09-2004

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Message 244 of 271 (156170)
11-05-2004 10:32 AM

Reply to: Message 243 by AdminNosy
11-05-2004 10:25 AM

Re: Useless post

He understands what it means.
He claims that he doesn't condemn anyone to hell, yet he does it in every other post, whether he is joking or not.

Since he does it and it doesn't contribute anything to the discussion, and also doesn't make him look any smarter, ask him why he bothers posting it.

I am detecting favoritism here, not good.

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	Message 243 by AdminNosy, posted 11-05-2004 10:25 AM		AdminNosy has replied

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	Message 245 by AdminNosy, posted 11-05-2004 10:56 AM		riVeRraT has replied

riVeRraT

Member (Idle past 446 days)

Posts: 5788

From: NY USA

Joined: 05-09-2004

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Message 252 of 271 (156236)
11-05-2004 2:29 PM

Reply to: Message 245 by AdminNosy
11-05-2004 10:56 AM

Re: Useless post

As soon as I understand what it is. I just started reading up on it.
So far it looks silly.

E(wager against God) = f2*p + f3*(1 − p)

That is right in line with the description of Love being:

I know that love is merely an evolutionary compulsion and a product of the chemical state of my brain.

Awesome stuff?
How dry.
I don't think that line would work well when proposing to your wife to be.

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riVeRraT

Member (Idle past 446 days)

Posts: 5788

From: NY USA

Joined: 05-09-2004

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Message 253 of 271 (156238)
11-05-2004 2:39 PM

Reply to: Message 247 by ramoss
11-05-2004 11:35 AM

Matthew 27
42"He saved others," they said, "but he can't save himself! He's the King of Israel! Let him come down now from the cross, and we will believe in him. 43He trusts in God. Let God rescue him now if he wants him, for he said, 'I am the Son of God.' " 44In the same way the robbers who were crucified with him also heaped insults on him.

They claimed, he claimed to be the Son of God. Jesus didn't write any of the bible, so anything that is in there is going to be what someone else claims.

John 14

6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7If you really knew me, you would know[1] my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."
8Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us."

If he wasn't the son, why would we have to go through him?

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riVeRraT

Member (Idle past 446 days)

Posts: 5788

From: NY USA

Joined: 05-09-2004

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Message 254 of 271 (156239)
11-05-2004 2:43 PM

Reply to: Message 248 by ramoss
11-05-2004 11:40 AM

That all may very well be true. Like I said before. I only know one person, and she was of Jewish birth, and all her family are Jewish. She is trying to convert them. It doesn't matter to me who founded what. It matters what is in their hearts.

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riVeRraT

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Posts: 5788

From: NY USA

Joined: 05-09-2004

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Message 255 of 271 (156240)
11-05-2004 2:43 PM

Reply to: Message 249 by ramoss
11-05-2004 11:42 AM

Thank you, can you tell me which prophets said that?

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riVeRraT

Member (Idle past 446 days)

Posts: 5788

From: NY USA

Joined: 05-09-2004

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Message 256 of 271 (156243)
11-05-2004 2:48 PM

Reply to: Message 250 by ramoss
11-05-2004 11:47 AM

He did not have added years to his life.

I guess coming back after he dies doesn't qualify.

What verses in the bible refer to all those claims you are making.

What differences are between the Torah and the OT?

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riVeRraT

Member (Idle past 446 days)

Posts: 5788

From: NY USA

Joined: 05-09-2004

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Message 257 of 271 (156244)
11-05-2004 2:50 PM

Reply to: Message 251 by ramoss
11-05-2004 11:50 AM

That is an odd question.
I think it is the lack of secular evidence that you are looking for.

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riVeRraT

Member (Idle past 446 days)

Posts: 5788

From: NY USA

Joined: 05-09-2004

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Message 260 of 271 (157045)
11-07-2004 7:09 PM

Reply to: Message 258 by Rrhain
11-07-2004 5:09 PM

Re: Back up

No, it can't be because they're sincere in their beliefs. It can't be because they think they're right. They have to be doing it because they're afraid. They have to be doing it because they know that you're right and are just spiteful and willful and evil.

Congratulations, riVeRraT. You've just insulted all Jews again. You really don't know when to quit, do you?

I have experienced this lie from a few Jews first hand. I am NOT claiming all Jews to be like that, as I have met a few that aren't. I do not pre-judge them at all.
I have not insulted anyone, just merely told the truth.

For Jesus to claim to be god would be to violate the first commandment.

The three are one.

But they have been taught the truth: Jesus isn't the Messiah.

So you claim.

Now I know you haven't spoken to a single Jew.

So now your calling me a liar? You think I am incapable of knowing a Jew? Who do you think I am, what do you think I am?
I have worked for Moses, I have sipped whiskey from a silver cup in the cadilac of suka's, and told Jacob about Jesus, whoile his wife was sweating bullets, because of what we were talking about.
Please....

But that's just it...they're not even Jewish by birth.

Yes they are, some of them. The article says so, I know one personally. I do not need you to tell me anymore lies about it.

quote:God isn't here to tell us.

But the Holy Spirit is.

Says who? You? Why should we believe you?

Once again, you're violating the first commandment. No other gods before me. Have you ever noticed that the "Holy Spirit" never shows up until the New Testament? Why do you think that might be?

Don't believe, me, believe the Holy Spirit.

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2 Now the earth was [1] formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

The spirit of God, mmmmm.....

This message is a reply to:
	Message 258 by Rrhain, posted 11-07-2004 5:09 PM		Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
	Message 262 by Rrhain, posted 11-07-2004 7:23 PM		riVeRraT has replied

riVeRraT

Member (Idle past 446 days)

Posts: 5788

From: NY USA

Joined: 05-09-2004

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Message 261 of 271 (157046)
11-07-2004 7:12 PM

Reply to: Message 259 by Rrhain
11-07-2004 5:16 PM

You will find that I have never brought up my standard response to Pascal's Wager except when someone invokes it. In other words, the only time I mention going to hell is when someone has specifically, consciously, and deliberately threatened someone else with it.

Right, I never do that. Even when I mentioned about something you said wouldn't help get you into the gates of heaven. That did not mean you are going to hell.

I think I have told you about 100 times now, only God can judge and send you anywhere. But I do care where you go.

You assume to much, faulty logic for sure.

This message is a reply to:
	Message 259 by Rrhain, posted 11-07-2004 5:16 PM		Rrhain has replied

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	Message 263 by Rrhain, posted 11-07-2004 7:34 PM		riVeRraT has not replied

riVeRraT

Member (Idle past 446 days)

Posts: 5788

From: NY USA

Joined: 05-09-2004

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Message 264 of 271 (157174)
11-08-2004 7:49 AM

Reply to: Message 262 by Rrhain
11-07-2004 7:23 PM

Re: Back up

Oh, please. You claim that Jews reject Jesus because they are afraid and you have the gall to sit there and say you do not "pre-judge"? You have the unmitigated arrogance to claim that you tell the truth?

That is what I see with my eyes. I may or may not be wrong, but I am not lying. At least I took the time in life to find the truth for myself.

Nice try. There is no "three." There is only one. God does not need Jesus because if god wants to do something, god will do it. There is no such thing as "son of god" because that would mean that there is something other than god and that simply isn't the case.

First commandment.

The three are one. This for you would be the hardest thing to understand in life because it is not logical, and logic runs your life.

I have no idea if you are capable or not. All I know is that by your words, you clearly don't know anything about Judaism or Jews.

Your perception of what a Jew is supposed to be. Not all Jews are the same, just like Christians.

quote:I know one personally.

No, you don't. You are lying.

We are now done, later.
*edit*
Unless you apologize.

This message has been edited by riVeRraT, 11-08-2004 07:51 AM

This message is a reply to:
	Message 262 by Rrhain, posted 11-07-2004 7:23 PM		Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
	Message 266 by Rrhain, posted 11-13-2004 5:09 PM		riVeRraT has not replied

riVeRraT

Member (Idle past 446 days)

Posts: 5788

From: NY USA

Joined: 05-09-2004

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Message 268 of 271 (159195)
11-13-2004 8:10 PM

Reply to: Message 267 by Rrhain
11-13-2004 5:12 PM

Re: Back off on that Rrhain

I'm saying he's making it up.

Awesome!

This message is a reply to:
	Message 267 by Rrhain, posted 11-13-2004 5:12 PM		Rrhain has replied

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	Message 269 by Rrhain, posted 11-14-2004 5:34 AM		riVeRraT has not replied

riVeRraT

Member (Idle past 446 days)

Posts: 5788

From: NY USA

Joined: 05-09-2004

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Message 271 of 271 (159459)
11-14-2004 8:37 PM

Reply to: Message 270 by 1.61803
11-14-2004 11:43 AM

Once and a while, when hes not lying or repeating himself, and when he actually understands what I am saying, he might have something intelligent to interject.

I don't hate him.

This message is a reply to:
	Message 270 by 1.61803, posted 11-14-2004 11:43 AM		1.61803 has not replied

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