Fossil Sorting in the Great Flood Part 2

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The problem for you is that so far, we've gained so much by moving away from the Bible.

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Fine. Praise to granny, and the cosmic creator speck. Don't think so!

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If the Bible really was accurate in every way, and science is the process by which our theories get more accurate

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Thing is, at the rate mainstream science is going, by the time they got fairly accurate concerning creation time, it would be billions of years!

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Well, it's not a "no", you just have to ask. It's been done before - forum exchanges have appeared in books - you just have to get the permission of everyone you plan on quoting.

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What if I just used my own, or that of friends, posts? Omitting all other posters? (perhaps adding a general word in on the jist of the question)

yes, well, the evidence strongly suggests that happened. what? i love how in order to make things fit, you have to CHANGE THE RULES. no, of course things were different back then! it's only a miracle, why not go all the way and say god's just trying to trick us now? my bible says that it rained 40 days, and then the water covered the earth another 150. and yes, we should. the world should look like giant flood plain. do you take objection to my saying that someone thought of evolution? someone thought of gravity too. the other ideas of the time to explain the observed evidence were lamarckism and intelligent design (or whatever they used to call it). me, because you make no sense, make silly claims like this with no backing, support, evidence or logic. hydrologic sorting neither happens nor fits the evidence. no, in the history books. explain to me why men sat down in councils to edit the bible? explain why incorrect translations exist. no, it's not a coincidence. the babylonian one reads exactly like noah and his ark too. only there's some difference. one, the guy's name is a lot longer. two, there are multiple gods, who fight amongst themselves. and three, it's not a rainbow, it's the milky way. the problem is that it's about a thousand years older than genesis. looks like the hebrew plaigarized a little.the other flood stories share little relation with noah. but this isn't the only kind of traditional story that's shared by a lot of cultures. another is the hospitality fable. two gods come visit, the town is mean to them, but one man and his family treat them nicely. the gods then reveal themselves, and kill everyone else, or reward the man and his family.sound familiar? lots of cultures have this story. what's the big deal? i love how insulting you are. however, just think what a wonderful evangelist you're being. not only do you not make any sense and make totally crazy unsubstantiated claims we've all heard before -- you're mean! well, this christ guy must be wonderful, since you're such a shining examples of his teachings.i suppose i'm going to hell too?

Bravo. Correct. So far it has been about 4.5 Billion years.But please try to stay on the subject in one of your threads.In this thread we are discussing fossil sorting and you have not yet shown ANY evidence that the record could have come from a world-wide flood.If you have any evidence, now would be a good time to list one such item.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Wow. Does that sentence have any meaning whatsoever, or any connection to my post? Because I don't see it. So long as you had their permission, there'd be no copyright issue (obviously you retain copyright on all your original messages.) On the other hand, there is the ethical issue of presenting only one side of an exchange.

I've brought up what I thought were possibilities that allow for a biblical inclusion in science. Things like instinct in a dying world possibly accounting for some grouping of fossils. Also things like cosmic factors that may also have affected certain species particularly. Then of course the world of whirlpools, great wind, and random ultra tidal waves, etc. -able to sweep oodles of creatures from almost any given habitat into a mass fossil grave. I brought up the possible split of the spiritual world, and the physical world, which is the cause of our dying (don't you call it enthropy?). So if theis split did happen, as I said, there would have been a world of life here already created, and if there was something in the process that affected a lot of certain creatures at the time, this could account for some layering? Say, as I mentioned, it was in the time the cambrian layer fossils were laid down. In such a scenario, it does not mean there were no men, just because they were not fossilized with the trilobites, etc. All it would mean was that at the time, men would have still lived say, close to a thousand years! Many creatures the same story, not really affected to the point of real fast death, like some of those smaller critters. Why not!?
Then, some people brought up comets, as affecting certain life, and may have affected layering. I was trying to determine if this really was a possibility in a flood year scenario.
So, the worldwide flood I envision was much more than water. Also, how about the different type of grass? Is this not a go? It seems there is a galaxy of forces that one could bring to bear on almost any specific one cares, or dares to raise. Thousands of different combinations which may have been at work.
Yet, though granny can not be proved, she is admitted as evidence in the evo mind! So much is based on that premise! 'Oh, it really looks like this was why it is layered the way it is'! Well, to millions of creation believers, it looks like the word of God better accounts for things, despite so called evidence you chose to embrace, or reject to make granny's case.

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Thing is, at the rate mainstream science is going, by the time they got fairly accurate concerning creation time, it would be billions of years!
"Bravo. Correct. So far it has been about 4.5 Billion years."

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I meant, of course not that anything has been that long so far (surely you don't think they were studying it for billions of years?) But that if we extrapolate forward the slow rate science is progressing in understanding things of the spirit, and God, it would take billions of years. They don't, will not, nor didn't actually have any such time to work with!

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So long as you had their permission, there'd be no copyright issue (obviously you retain copyright on all your original messages.) On the other hand, there is the ethical issue of presenting only one side of an exchange.

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OK, let's be ethical here, if any poster wants to be in the book, speak very soon, or get excluded for legal reasons!

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Wow. Does that sentence have any meaning whatsoever, or any connection to my post? Because I don't see it.

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I think it was to illustrate that granny evo has nothing to do with real science? Overlooking missing transitions, of which there are legion, and hoping for good luck, and benefitial mutations, etc.
Well, I'm gone for about 3-4 days.

No, you have not introduced any evidence. You have made wild and unfounded assertions.So once again, if you have any evidence, now is the time to present it.The ONLY issue here is Fossil sorting.You have show no mechanism for a flood sorting fossils.So far you have scored zero point in sorting.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

As long as my posts are presented in context and complete I give permission.

Thanks all especially Nosyned who replied to my 2 cents.
To Nosyned and to help the other evolutionists understand the creationist anaysis of past events here goes.I was asked to breckdown the rock sequences. The famous cretaceous/teritary (Spelling uge) line in the geological columne is the flood line. The teritary sequences are post flood representing the rare occurances of rock solidification. As before that the flood created great rock chaos. There are no rock creation before the flood except the instant creation by God in a day (probably).All interpretations of plate teutonics etc were from the year of the flood. Also the creatures fossilized within these rocks done exclusively during this event.The patterns seen in geology are easily and more plausibly explained as the result of the great and sudden overthrow of the earth by the flood and the land separation which it caused which we accept and incoorporate in our science models.Nosyned has rightly said the interpretations of a few creationists about animal fossil sequence being explained by who could run better are erroneous. Creationists don't need such unlikely theories.
This has been an error of my fellow creationists.
They simply misunderstand the pre and post world had different faunas dominating the planet.Later all Robert Byers

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The famous cretaceous/teritary (Spelling uge) line in the geological columne is the flood line. The teritary sequences are post flood representing the rare occurances of rock solidification.

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So we should find examples of the drowned animal life, including humans, in the pre-Cenozoic flood deposit. Yet no contemporary species is known in pre-Cenozoic deposits.

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They simply misunderstand the pre and post world had different faunas dominating the planet.

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This is un-Biblical. Noah was instructed to save a pair of every unclean beast and seven (or seven pairs?) of every clean beast. In other words, modern species are the descendents of actual species saved by Noah. Meaning these species would have had to have been existent before the flood. Meaning these entire species (except the few individuals saved by Noah) were drowned in the flood. Meaning that there should be examples of these species in the flood deposits.

It is very brave of you to be so clear. This is usually avoided very carefully by the creation "scientists".You have begun to construct some "model" of what happened and what if flood and not flood. Thank you.I will, with some diffculty, refrain from any comment for now. You will find out why the creation organization avoid being to specific. :-) Boy will you find out!Just to share the fun I'll leave this to others. They will have some more detailed questions and will want to know how, within what you've said so far, the fossil order is determined. I think you are going to find out that it is not a great idea to attempt this until you understand, in great detail, the data that is available. You might be operating with a significant dearth of knowledge and that is what makes you think this is going to be simple.Good luck, I do sincerely congratulate you on your bravery and clarity. You are unusual in that (as evidenced by arkathon).

and... I just want to understand what it is you are saying. Is the Upper or lower Boundary of the Cretaceouos layer what you are calling the flood event? Or is the whole Cretaceous layer the flood event?So prior to the flood, all we should see is the layer laid down at the moment (likely a one day event) of Creation?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

And why would God create sedimentary rocks? I would expect that when the earth was created, there would just be basement rock (with the necessary river channels pre-cut throught them) and some amount of created top soil for the vegetation.So, the question is, looking at all the sedimentary rocks, is how to divide it up into pre-flood, flood, and post-flood. And to explain the vastly different fossilized flora and fauna found within each.After that, we can talk about the thicknesses of these sedimentary deposits, and ask whether any could be deposited within the requisite amount of time. If the propose flood layer (like the Cretaceous!) contains animal burrows, desert sand dunes, and the like we can ask how these could have formed during the flood.That's the fun thing about a definite definition -- it makes it obvious that the flood is ridiculous as a geologic explanation. And most people, I would think, would be aware very quickly that the same problems would come up no matter where one puts the flood. I think that is why people very rarely try to present a flood model.

issues we need to deal with right now. I just want to make sure that I understand what he is saying.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

why is there more rock below the k-t line than above? why are modern species severl lacking below it, and only appearing very close to the top? what mechanism sorted all the fossils to look like the special creations formed a developmental order? plate techtonics and continental drift are still measured today, you know. it happens still. uhh, no, they're not. if they were, that theory would be accepted. scientist don't have it out for christian beliefs, just bad science.