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Author Topic:   Are flightless birds a reversion?
molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2672 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 12 of 44 (419248)
09-01-2007 8:07 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by jar
09-01-2007 7:37 PM


Re: wing vs limb elements
Does this help?
Cooper, A., C. Lalueza-Fox, S. Anderson, A. Rambaut, J.Austin, and R.Ward. 2001. Complete mitochondrial genome sequences of two extinct moas clarify ratite evolution. Nature 409:704-707.
And there's an elephant bird bibliography ("Literature & Links") here:
Digimorph - Aepyornis (elephant bird)

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Replies to this message:
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molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2672 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 15 of 44 (419253)
09-01-2007 8:21 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Buzsaw
09-01-2007 8:15 PM


Ostrige... Ostrage...
Perhaps the ostriges which don't fly could be analogous to the coelacanth which after alleged millions of years still does not walk, still having lung-like features and having fins where legs would be had it evolved.
Is this your version of "Coelacanths are unchanging forms that show no evidence of evolution" aka "living fossils refute evolution"?

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Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by RAZD, posted 09-01-2007 8:31 PM molbiogirl has not replied
 Message 23 by Rob, posted 09-01-2007 9:43 PM molbiogirl has not replied
 Message 35 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-03-2007 7:06 AM molbiogirl has not replied

  
molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2672 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 19 of 44 (419258)
09-01-2007 8:49 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by RAZD
09-01-2007 8:37 PM


Re: wing vs limb elements
Well, there's this:
The evolutionary radiation of modern birds (Neornithes): reconciling molecules, morphology and the fossil record Zoological Journal of the Linnean Society Volume 141 Issue 2 Page 153-177, June 2004
It has a lot of links re: Palaeognathae fossils (and some pics too).
And there's this:
Analyses of Mitochondrial DNA Nest Ratite Birds within the Neognathae: Supporting a Neotenous Origin of Ratite Morphological Characters
Anna Harlid, Ulfur Arnason Proceedings: Biological Sciences, Vol. 266, No. 1416 (Feb. 7, 1999), pp. 305-309
Final sentence of abstract:
Thus, the result is inconsistent with the traditional understanding of a basal avian divergence between Palaeognathae and Neognathae. The findings suggest that the morphological characteristics of the ratites are secondarily acquired, probably through neoteny and that the ratites are descendants of flying, neognathous ancestors.
Edited by molbiogirl, : found ratites

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molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2672 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 20 of 44 (419261)
09-01-2007 9:11 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by RAZD
09-01-2007 8:37 PM


Ratites
Found this:
Evidence for speciational change in the evolution of ratites (Aves: Palaeognathae) Biological Journal of the Linnean Society Volume 80 Issue 1 Page 99-106, September 2003
Pulled this quote:
We can wonder about the proximal factors (Cubo et al., 2000; Cubo, 2000) underlying the similar patterns of character evolution in the different wing bones of ratites. Ratite wing bones are under-developed and this has been interpreted by Cubo & Arthur (2000) as a case of paedomorphosis (the retention of ancestral juvenile character states in adult stages of descendants, Gould, 1977). Considering that the development of forelimbs is delayed relative to the development of hindlimbs in birds (Carrier & Leon, 1990), either the truncation or the retardation of somatic development (heterochrony) is likely to produce reduction of the size of all wing bones by correlated development (Cubo & Arthur, 2000). Heterochronic changes can be instantaneous in terms of geological time (Gould, 1977) and they are likely to produce patterns of speciational character evolution. Ratite wing bones do not play a function in locomotion, they do not undergo adaptation linked to flight, and this would have contributed to preserve the pattern of speciational character evolution generated by heterochronic changes.

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molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2672 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 27 of 44 (419284)
09-01-2007 10:32 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by jar
09-01-2007 10:26 PM


Re: More off topic nonsense from Rob.
It's not just you, jar.
Rob is posting bare links to his PNT in other threads, too.

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 Message 26 by jar, posted 09-01-2007 10:26 PM jar has not replied

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