Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total)
2 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,913 Year: 4,170/9,624 Month: 1,041/974 Week: 368/286 Day: 11/13 Hour: 0/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Re-Theory of Evolution
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1435 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 8 of 60 (456537)
02-18-2008 5:42 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by ICANT
02-18-2008 10:10 AM


A different tack
In this topic I would like to discuss:
Why is it that makes no difference how a question is worded if it includes the word evolution it can only mean biological evolution?
Why the process from singularity until today is not evolution Or why it is evolution?
Why abiogenesis is not evolution or why it is evolution?
Let's take a different tack to try to avoid all the different uses of the word "evolution" so that we can see what we are talking about.
quote:
The Theory of Evolution is a change over time where all living things came from a pea sized universe that expanded into what we see and what we do not see today. The Big Band Theory tries to explain what happened in the material universe from T=O+ until present. The Theory of Abiogenesis tries to explain how life came into being on a lifeless planet. Once this life appeared the Theory of Biogenesis tries to explain how all living lifeforms extinct and living today came from this first or many life cells.
It seems 2 people realized where I was coming from with my definition.
http://EvC Forum: What is evolution? -->EvC Forum: What is evolution?
RAZD writes:
This is the "kitchen sink" conflation of every possible meaning of evolution. I'll make no other comments at this time, other than note the OP request:
The different events you have included here are
(1) The "evolution" of the universe at the beginning, via the "big bang" hypothesis.
(2) The "evolution" of life from chemical precursors.
(3) The "evolution" of the diversity of life since the beginning.
You forgot a couple -- the evolution of stars, as they form, mature, and expire, and the evolution of forms from one to another, fetal evolution as the organism develops, flower evolution as the flower forms a bud, opens, expires. Evolution of designs and they make incremental and other changes (tv, computers etc).
This is what I called the "kitchen sink" conflation, because what you are lumping together all the different fields that explain how things came to be the way they are. Each of these involve change over time.
What I see it doing is placing {all scientific study of how all things work and came to be} under the umbrella of "evolution" -- and place it in opposition to creation. I find this is the way most creationists think of "evolutionism" - even incorporating a world philosophy that rejects belief.
It is preached on this site there is only one type of evolution.
The reason this is a fact is because a part of biogenesis, biological evolution can be proven and some of the processes have been agreed to by creationist. Myself included.
I'm confused by this. Why does the level of evidence have anything to do with which version of evolution is discussed when discussing biological change?
There are many types of evolution -- that is not disputed -- the question is which one you are talking about at any one time, and being careful not to equivocate from one to another. This is the main reason I'm trying to move away from using the "E" word.
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by ICANT, posted 02-18-2008 10:10 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by ICANT, posted 02-18-2008 7:04 PM RAZD has replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1435 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 16 of 60 (456570)
02-18-2008 9:09 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by ICANT
02-18-2008 7:04 PM


Re: A different tack
Thanks ICANT
RAZD writes:
I'm confused by this. Why does the level of evidence have anything to do with which version of evolution is discussed when discussing biological change?
Welcome to the club.
Let me rephrase: I don't think what you claimed occurs. We've had threads on cosmological "evolution" and on abiogenesis. More threads are about biological evolution because that is what the is involved in biological evolution. The statement struck me along the lines of "three red cars went through an intersection, then two blue cars had an accident: why are we talking about blue cars when we are talking about accidents when there are red cars as well?"
Yes and since about 80% of the people in the US have some type of belief in God it causes a big problem.
Only for the 10% that don't agree with evolution ... but again most of this "problem" is of it's own making: the "kitchen sink" definition of evolution is not promoted by scientists but by creationists. They keep repeating falsehoods like "goo to you" and "molecule to man" evolution (implying teleology is involved and that mankind is the purpose of evolution).
Whether people agree with science is immaterial: what is material is whether the science has the facts right.
The confusing part of my statement to you is that I was hinting at a little deception on the part of Evolutionist. If they can put everything under the umbrella of The Theory of Evolution and mean The Theory of Biological Evolution they can claim evolution to be proven.
But it is creationists that are doing all the conflating of one with the other.
Because as you pointed out there are many types of evolution and when you say ToE creationist think you are including everything that evolves.
The real question though, is why is this not cleared up the moment anyone asks about any other kind of evolution and the biologists/evolutionists tell you they are only talking about biological evolution. Why doesn't the misperception just go away?
Biological evolution involves biological processes, and these do not, can not apply to stars.
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by ICANT, posted 02-18-2008 7:04 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by ICANT, posted 02-18-2008 9:22 PM RAZD has replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1435 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 19 of 60 (456581)
02-18-2008 10:33 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by ICANT
02-18-2008 9:22 PM


Re: A different tack
So why can't it be refered to as what it is? The Theory of Biological Evolution.
ToBE, or not ToBE, that is the question.
It is always better to be more concise and explicit in what you mean.
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by ICANT, posted 02-18-2008 9:22 PM ICANT has not replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1435 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 45 of 60 (457369)
02-22-2008 9:48 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by ICANT
02-20-2008 12:02 AM


42?
I can not accept that, "theory of evolution" = "theory of biological evolution".
42
What you are looking for is the answer to the ultimate question of life, the universe, and oh, everything.
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by ICANT, posted 02-20-2008 12:02 AM ICANT has not replied

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024