EvC Forum: Can random mutations cause an increase in information in the genome?

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Topic: Can random mutations cause an increase in information in the genome?

mark24

Member (Idle past 5497 days)

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Message 92 of 310 (286558)
02-14-2006 3:12 PM

Reply to: Message 54 by Garrett
02-14-2006 1:30 PM

Re: Is information responsible for snowflake complexity also?

Garrett,

That is tantamount to saying that a pile of sand conveys meaning.

DNA doesn't convey meaning, either. It conveys as much information to you as a pile of sand.

Mark

There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't

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	Message 54 by Garrett, posted 02-14-2006 1:30 PM		Garrett has replied

Replies to this message:
	Message 96 by Garrett, posted 02-14-2006 3:24 PM		mark24 has replied

mark24

Member (Idle past 5497 days)

Posts: 3857

From: UK

Joined: 12-01-2001

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Message 100 of 310 (286569)
02-14-2006 3:32 PM

Reply to: Message 96 by Garrett
02-14-2006 3:24 PM

Re: Is information responsible for snowflake complexity also?

Garrett,

In a sense, you are right. DNA, in and of itself, conveys no meaning. However, the specified complexity of the DNA does have meaning

The best you could say is that DNA is potentially a language for conveying meaning, if you could show the language actually conveyed meaning. But then, how would you know? There is still no message with "meaning" in the DNA that is more than that of a pile of sand.

Mark

There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't

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	Message 96 by Garrett, posted 02-14-2006 3:24 PM		Garrett has not replied

mark24

Member (Idle past 5497 days)

Posts: 3857

From: UK

Joined: 12-01-2001

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Message 176 of 310 (286758)
02-15-2006 3:55 AM

Reply to: Message 175 by randman
02-15-2006 1:57 AM

Re: random?

randman,

If random is based on our mere lack of knowledge, then it is not inherently random, but random more describes our perspective than an absolute quality.

Why do beneficial mutations happen in tiny fractions in bacteria that exist under exactly the same conditions if the mutation is non-random, then? If it were non-random we would see all or most of the bacteria get the same mutation, but we don't.

Are you sure? I would think that we could under certain conditions predict with a high degree of accuracy the mutations that will occur in certain situations, and with more knowledge, we should be able to predict with even more accuracy.

But let's say we have complete knowledge of how genes work, the exact conditions, etc,...are you saying even then we could not predict the mutations would occur under certain sequences under certain conditions?

Ad hoc

Mark

This message has been edited by mark24, 02-15-2006 04:01 AM

There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't

This message is a reply to:
	Message 175 by randman, posted 02-15-2006 1:57 AM		randman has not replied

mark24

Member (Idle past 5497 days)

Posts: 3857

From: UK

Joined: 12-01-2001

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Message 240 of 310 (287580)
02-17-2006 9:46 AM

Reply to: Message 237 by Garrett
02-17-2006 9:22 AM

Re: Question outstanding!

Garrett,

Until you can produce evidence of mutations that lead to changes above the species level, you are relying on faith to hold that position.

Nonsense. It can be inferred indirectly. Heritable morphological change is dependent on genetic changes. If phylogenies & cladograms show a correlation with the stratigraphic location of fossils, then the morphological change in the fossil record is consistent with evolution & genetic change over time.

Mark

There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't

This message is a reply to:
	Message 237 by Garrett, posted 02-17-2006 9:22 AM		Garrett has not replied

mark24

Member (Idle past 5497 days)

Posts: 3857

From: UK

Joined: 12-01-2001

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Message 263 of 310 (287693)
02-17-2006 2:05 PM

Reply to: Message 257 by randman
02-17-2006 11:56 AM

Re: Question outstanding!

randman,

Well, evidence that evolution has occurred is overwhelming...

Typical, absolute nonsense. You guys can say this until you are blue in the face, but it's still wrong.

Mark

There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't

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	Message 257 by randman, posted 02-17-2006 11:56 AM		randman has not replied

Replies to this message:
	Message 266 by Percy, posted 02-17-2006 3:46 PM		mark24 has replied

mark24

Member (Idle past 5497 days)

Posts: 3857

From: UK

Joined: 12-01-2001

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Message 282 of 310 (288026)
02-18-2006 7:52 AM

Reply to: Message 266 by Percy
02-17-2006 3:46 PM

Re: Question outstanding!

Percy,

If Mark24's point was already clear then just ignore this, but in case not, he's highlighting the pointlessness of replying in this fashion.

Spot on.

Mark

There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't

This message is a reply to:
	Message 266 by Percy, posted 02-17-2006 3:46 PM		Percy has not replied

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