Can random mutations cause an increase in information in the genome?

Percy,I don't think you are even hinting at this but then again maybe you are, still I think there is a fit so I'll toss this out. We focus on the organism as the figure of interest but we need to keep in mind that organism is only part of a complex process of
organism/environment. Organisms can't exist independent of environments and they alter their environment and are envirnoment for other organisms.I don't know if this is the gaia hypothesis or what but it's ultimately one system and the earth system has been growing more complex and this complexity observes the laws of science as we begin to understand them so it's clearly a function of this universe.Now the prescientific religious thinkers didn't have a scientific conception of system theory and could imagination situations that violated much of what we now know can't be done.Like you I don't know what the term information plays in this. I just thought I'd point out to Garrett that it's just not organisms but the total environment that changes and that through various events and pressures "selects" for various mutations.lfen

We don't even need to look at living organisms to see examples of complexity in the universe.Snowflakes are more complex than water molecules which in turn are more complex than oxygen and hydrogen atoms which in turn are more complex than electrons, and so on. Would you say that the complex crystaline patterns of snowflakes are information? If so how do you explain how this information is applied?Are the "instructions" for snowflakes present in the molecule, the atoms, the sub atomic patterns? If not,then is "extra info needed along the way"?lfen

DNA is not a language or a code. It is a template. Taking the most common example it's a template to make RNA and the RNA is used to chain amino acids together to create proteins. We can talk talk about code or translation but it's a process of replication and then protein synthesis.Our bodies, specifically our cells aren't really using translation they are just attaching amino acids together and then they have a specific protein. Other combinations of the DNA base pairs are used to indicate where the protein synthesis begins and ends and if it's to take place i.e. if that particular protein synthesis is turned on or turned off. This is simplified in the interest of brevity but really this has nothing to do with the kinds of linguist translation of one language say French into another for example English, or what Shakespeare meant into modern English.What we are talking about is different proteins. Is this what you are calling information?lfen

I'd like to toss in my every day understanding of what is meant by "random" rather than fancy mathematical information theory definitions.I think when talking about random mutation what is meant is that it's strictly by chance. Cosmic rays zip through the earth. Occassionally they zip through an egg or sperm cell, or a bacteria and not only that they zip through a DNA molecule and in so passing through alter a bond. This can't be predicted and hence is random. Same goes for chemical exposure or other radiation exposure or to odd accidents in replication. They happen when they happen and no one knows when or where the next one will strike and it's effect depends on where in the DNA it hits and we say that is at random because we have no way to predict it.Is this acceptable?lfen

deletedI hadn't gotten to the warning sections when I replied to this post.mea culpalfenThis message has been edited by lfen, 02-15-2006 11:41 AM