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Author Topic:   The Nature of Mutations
Mister Pamboli
Member (Idle past 7607 days)
Posts: 634
From: Washington, USA
Joined: 12-10-2001


Message 106 of 344 (38777)
05-02-2003 2:12 PM
Reply to: Message 102 by PhospholipidGen
05-02-2003 1:27 PM


Re: Mutations deleterious based on environment?
quote:
crashfrog: I don't have to provide evidence for a naturalistic paradigm.
Phsopho: Yes, you do. Especially when that naturalistic paradigm is assumed, not proven.
You'll not be able to advance this argument any further without more clarity. Crashfrog made it pretty clear that for him the naturalistic paradigm is the default because it requires no supernatural entities. Phospho is really just saying "no" but giving no clearly argued reason for this. Simply saying to each other "prove it" and "don't need to" is pretty pointless.
A more constructive approach could be taken by considering not absolute positions of what holds and does not hold, but a process-oriented view. Are we using an inductive strategy that can reliably lead to truth, and if so, is my "working hypothesis" of the moment compatible with that process?
I'll put my cards on the table and say that I think the naturalistic hypothesis is entirely compatible with "inference to the best explanation." It may be that the "best explanation" turns out to be a supernatural one. But that does not mean that adopting a "supernatural" paradigm during the inductive process is compatible with a reliable inductive strategy.
In other words, asking one or other to prove a paradigm as true is simply neither useful or necessary - in fact it may even be incompatible with a suitable strategy. The really interesting question is whether the inductive strategy can be improved or not.
I suppose it could be said that believers in supernaturalism claim to have found - through the Bible perhaps - a more efficient strategy for reaching the truth. That may well be so. The question remains, however, as to which strategy is appropriate for science.
In this context, then, crashfrog need not prove the chosen paradigm tombe true, only that choosing that paradigm is compatible with an appropriate inductive strategy.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by PhospholipidGen, posted 05-02-2003 1:27 PM PhospholipidGen has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 138 by PhospholipidGen, posted 05-08-2003 3:26 PM Mister Pamboli has not replied

Mister Pamboli
Member (Idle past 7607 days)
Posts: 634
From: Washington, USA
Joined: 12-10-2001


Message 326 of 344 (44491)
06-27-2003 8:30 PM
Reply to: Message 325 by John A. Davison
06-27-2003 7:06 PM


I'll drop out of Admin mode for a quick tussle if you don't mind.
Berg does refer to Oparin and the primordial soup in "Proceedings on the Theory of Evolution" published posthumously in Nauka in 1977. I don't think it is available in English, but this link includes a paraphrase http://www.vertushkov.dp.ua/statya.htm

life appeared as a result of processes of progressive complication of organic substance, going in extended front, under natural and hardly noticeable transfer of chemical evolution into biological one, on the vast, numerous, differing by their conditions, water areas of the Earth

BTW, I don't think you should get too hung up about people criticizing the conveniently dead - your own correspondence is littered with "x would have agreed with me" snippets referring to figures who are not around to disagree, and who may well be spinning in their graves at being associated with the semi-meiotic myth.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 325 by John A. Davison, posted 06-27-2003 7:06 PM John A. Davison has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 327 by John A. Davison, posted 06-28-2003 6:04 AM Mister Pamboli has not replied
 Message 328 by John A. Davison, posted 06-28-2003 6:45 AM Mister Pamboli has not replied
 Message 329 by John A. Davison, posted 06-28-2003 8:24 AM Mister Pamboli has not replied
 Message 330 by John A. Davison, posted 06-28-2003 12:15 PM Mister Pamboli has not replied
 Message 340 by John A. Davison, posted 06-29-2003 8:35 AM Mister Pamboli has not replied

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