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Author Topic:   Is Abiogenesis a fact?
nwr
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Posts: 6412
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 55 of 303 (313466)
05-19-2006 8:23 AM
Reply to: Message 54 by Lex_Luthor
05-19-2006 5:31 AM


Abiogenesis is not fact.
Why do creationists argue this? Their own Bible claims that life was created out of non-life on earth. If so, then that is abiogenesis.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Lex_Luthor, posted 05-19-2006 5:31 AM Lex_Luthor has not replied

Replies to this message:
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nwr
Member
Posts: 6412
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 67 of 303 (313853)
05-20-2006 9:52 AM
Reply to: Message 66 by Lex_Luthor
05-20-2006 8:22 AM


Re: NON SEQUITUR
The laws of physics are not deterministic?
"The laws of physics are deterministic" and "The universe is deterministic" are two quite different things. The first does not imply the second.
In the same way NASA engineers calculate the determined paths of planets/moons for space missions; there is no guess work.
Perhaps you are not aware that NASA mission are highly instrumented. As the mission proceeds, measurements are made, and on the basis of those measurements corrections are made to the flight path (by firing small rockets). This hardly counts as evidence for determinism.
Above all, without an understanding of the basic physics of a problem, we'd be shooting in the dark because our predictions would be utterly useless if the universe were not deterministic.
This is false. In order for physics to be highly useful, it suffices that the laws of physics give very good approximations. It is not necessary that they be exactly correct.
Perhaps you are the one who lacks an understanding of the basic physics.

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 Message 66 by Lex_Luthor, posted 05-20-2006 8:22 AM Lex_Luthor has not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6412
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 86 of 303 (314291)
05-22-2006 9:20 AM
Reply to: Message 85 by Lex_Luthor
05-22-2006 9:16 AM


Re: Did you read my post?
I did read the OP.
That's not evident in what you post.
Can abiogenesis be considered fact? No, because the physics of the transformation ...
The physics is not relevant to the question raised in the OP.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by Lex_Luthor, posted 05-22-2006 9:16 AM Lex_Luthor has replied

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 Message 87 by Lex_Luthor, posted 05-22-2006 9:23 AM nwr has replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6412
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 88 of 303 (314298)
05-22-2006 9:33 AM
Reply to: Message 87 by Lex_Luthor
05-22-2006 9:23 AM


Re: Did you read my post?
The OP writes:
Fact - There used to be no life on earth. There is now life on earth. Therefore life arose from non-life.
Are you asserting that the Genesis account is wrong on account of the physics?
Are you asserting panspermia (that life arrived on earth from elsewhere in outer space)?
Or maybe you failed to understand the OP.

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 Message 87 by Lex_Luthor, posted 05-22-2006 9:23 AM Lex_Luthor has replied

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 Message 89 by Lex_Luthor, posted 05-22-2006 9:38 AM nwr has replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6412
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 90 of 303 (314306)
05-22-2006 10:00 AM
Reply to: Message 89 by Lex_Luthor
05-22-2006 9:38 AM


Re: Did you read my post?
Okay, I get it.
You are claiming that life does not exist on earth at all, because the physics precludes it

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by Lex_Luthor, posted 05-22-2006 9:38 AM Lex_Luthor has replied

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 Message 92 by Lex_Luthor, posted 05-22-2006 10:56 AM nwr has replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6412
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 96 of 303 (314327)
05-22-2006 11:08 AM
Reply to: Message 92 by Lex_Luthor
05-22-2006 10:56 AM


Re: Did you read my post?
No, you do not get it, in desperation you have put words in my mouth.
I am stating the clear implications of what you have written, in light of your claim that you have read and understood the OP.
I suggest you try actually reading the OP.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by Lex_Luthor, posted 05-22-2006 10:56 AM Lex_Luthor has not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6412
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 142 of 303 (314726)
05-23-2006 7:35 PM
Reply to: Message 140 by AdminNWR
05-23-2006 10:22 AM


Re: About Abiogenesis...
Because if Abiogenesis is not a fact, then what is the alternative explantion?
As far as I can tell, the only plausible alternative is something like panspermia (the introduction of life from outer space).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 140 by AdminNWR, posted 05-23-2006 10:22 AM AdminNWR has not replied

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nwr
Member
Posts: 6412
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 144 of 303 (314734)
05-23-2006 8:07 PM
Reply to: Message 142 by nwr
05-23-2006 7:35 PM


Re: About Abiogenesis...
That just "moves back" the Question. How did that immigrating Life begin?
It doesn't just move it back. Rather, it changes it to a cosmological question. If life arose somewhere other than earth, then there might have been more possibilities as to how life could have arisen. If you are willing to consider a possibility that the universe has existed forever, then it might be that there was always life.
My own best guess is that life arose on earth, and that abiogenesis is likely to occur whenever conditions are suitable. But that's just hypothesis at present, and we are a long way from having enough evidence to settle the issue.

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Replies to this message:
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