The definition of GOD

Hello, Newbie! (I'm calling you RTU for short! ) I have some questions for you. First of all, what do you mean by the ultimate possible Being or Thing? Is this Being knowable? (If so, I am sure it would be on His terms rather than on our terms!) Also...if this God that you describe has total control over everything, what is left for us to do?Welcome to EvC, by the way! This should be interesting! What is the source of your logic? One thing I might add. Either humans imagined/created all of the various Gods, GODS and gods that our species has collectively written and spoken about, or one or more of these Gods are actually real and imagined/created us long before we as a species were even able to conceptualize them.My logic says that One God is enough. Some may choose to challenge me on the grounds that their God is more logical than mine. Perhaps in the end, however, we are all talking about the same one! How would we ever gather any logic or evidence to prove that God exists? The only tangible evidence that I can see comes from an individuals intuitive and deductive capabilities. For the purpose of this discussion, I can allow that nothing can be declared as an absolute, but absolute hypothesis do need to be discussed.

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"All that we call human history--money, poverty, ambition, war, prostitution, classes, empires, slavery--[is] the long terrible story of man trying to find something other than God which will make him happy."--C.S.Lewis
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“The world has achieved brilliance without wisdom, power without conscience. Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants.”--General Omar Bradley
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"The free man owns himself. He can damage himself with either eating or drinking; he can ruin himself with gambling. If he does he is certainly a damn fool, and he might possibly be a damned soul; but if he may not, he is not a free man any more than a dog." -GK Chesterson

I see what you are saying, and agree with you that God cannot be rationally proven, although God can be rationally accepted.If we had an imaginary room full of people who sought through debate and logical deduction to explore this topic, we would almost certainly conclude with the idea that God could not be proved or even defined. Such is the nature of the brains He gave us. (IMB, of course.)I think that RTU will have a tough time establishing any unquestionable logic on the existence of God, but we can have a rational discussion on the possibility. Rahvin, do you personally believe that "God" could be possible? If so, is this "God" that you imagine a product of your own mind or is He an undefinable possibility outside of human logic and reason?

Thoughts are sequential. When I examine your premises, they are all logical in one regard. One question to consider, for the moment:

Must God follow the rules of logic, or does God define logic?

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In other words, lets look at the issue of the rock.

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Can God....(The God we are now defining or revealing, as the belief may be) make a rock so big He cannot lift it?

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Well...several possible points to ponder.

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Can a human create something that is more powerful than they are? Yes.

Can we modify it so as to gain control over it at some future point in time? Yes.

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Nuclear Weapons are often thought of as a proverbial genie let out of the box. The verdict is still out on whether we humans have regained control over this rock that is bigger than we are.

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But back to God.

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Perhaps we should ask this: If God is infinitely powerful, could He create something more powerful than He is? (Infinity + )

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Some folks argue that our free will is something that even God cannot control. (or will not, assuming He can do anything. )

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I may be drifting a bit off topic, though....so lets get back to our focus on a working definition of God that we all can perhaps agree on...( or not. )

Let me have a try at a working definition. God is the Creator of all matter and energy seen and unseen. God is the source. Human wisdom, which some say is all that we really have, allows us to speculate on Biological origins, Cosmological origins and philosophical origins. keep in mind that for many aith/belief people, empiricism is not a necessity. Of course, some folks will state that they have had an epiphany or an impartation from God, and, without trying to sound egotistical or exclusivist, may use this as their justification for evidence. They have a subjective standard, however, so in the interests of this debate, it may be well to assume that they did, in fact, have such an impartation and go from there! Edited by Phat, : added

RTU, let me clarify where you are coming from, if I may. Are you saying that God is totally logical, definable, and believable? Without using the term, God, we could say that there is an absolute reality of supreme logic and that you are attempting to introduce this possibility for others to discuss?If so, I will respect the idea that this supreme Being of logic is itself immune from critique by other sources of logic since it, (the idea) by definition is the source of logic. Am I understanding you correctly?

In this hypothetical book scenario, given that the book is already written, do we as characters have any say on how our roles play out in a Chapter by Chapter, Page by Page analogy?

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If not, we could well conclude that regardless of what we decide on a daily basis, our fate is etched in eternity regardless of our logic or belief.

Evil? Are you suggesting that you are wary of a God whom by definition controls Jons precious free will? IF you believed in God, Jon---tell us what sort of characteristics your God would have.