Free will vs Omniscience

But the Bible never tells anyone who God is beyond the single statement of the really pretty evil God who says "I am the Lord, thy god."You do know where that comes from and the god described in that story don't you? Most of that either has no meaning or is a major problem with the nonsense all of the Apologists market."Is Jesus God?" If Jesus is God the Trinity is false. And Jesus sits at God's right hand, a separate individual."Is GOD the Father of Jesus?" Not according to the Bible. The Nativity Story has Mary impregnated by an agent sent by God."Is Jesus eternally alive and in Heaven with GOD?' What does that even mean. You have never been able to explain what that means."Is the distinction of Jesus over other humans important, or do you believe that we all will be raised from the dead?" More word salad."Why must this God of yours save everybody without any effort on their part?" More simple misrepresentation of what I have said and again, totally irrelevant to the topic or ANY of the issues I've raised in this thread.Edited by jar, : n0 0 in ofEdited by jar, : fix sub-title

No one knows what God is. They can only know about the god that they create and that exists only in their imagination.

Why it matters Phat is that is the god the Apologists (and you when you stop dancing for a second) market.

The Bible (and there is no such thing as The Bible) says lots of silly, contradictory and fantasy stuff. It says what humans imagined and wrote and then other humans redacted and yet other humans edited and still other humans compiled into several different anthologies of anthologies.

You still refuse or are unable to understand even the basics.The God you and the Apologists market foreknowing CREATES people who will be damned regardless of what they do.And yes, Jesus says you need to stop thinking you are special or that you have any exclusivity.You are no more important than pond scum as far as God is concerned but by your behavior you can rise above that threshold. No Phat, it is a conclusion based on all of the evidence and I have gone over much of the evidence with you again and again just as so many others have gone over the evidence again and again.It is explicit in the fact that you have never been able to provide any evidence or reasoned argument in support of your position or any of the Apologist other than to claim it upends your aura of exclusivity and special-ness that your Born Again experience gave you.Edited by jar, : applin spallin

Once again, you can offer no evidence or reasoned argument or even address the issue but instead try to palm the pea, con the rubes, misdirect attention; all the hallmarks of the Medicine man, carny hustler and Apologist.Address the issue Phat.The God you and the Apologists market foreknowingly CREATES people who will be damned regardless of what they do.

LOL That is so stupid Phat. I do not need to ask God about the God you and the Apologists create and market, I can and have asked you.And you never provide either evidence or reasoned argument to support the god you create and market. If the salesman can't sell the product it really can't have much value.

In Genesis 2&3 there is no Fall, rather Adam and Eve become more like God. In the story it is the Serpent that tells the truth and the God that lies or at best tells half truths and made up stuff.

Of course it doesn't say that in the Bible; it is the Apologist and you who make that claim. You claim that god is omniscient and the creator of all, seen and unseen and that you are among the saved but many others are not. It is all the evidence Phat that shows that all the gods humans can and have discussed are simply descriptions of the god they imagined. That's why the God in Genesis 1 is entirely different than the God in Genesis 2&3 and the gods of the Hindus and god of all the other religions are completely different. They are all the creation of humans and exist only as long as humans believe in them. The Apologists simply market what they create. And yes, the Apologists willfully ignore Critical Thinking and in fact refuse to thinks at all.And Phat, I have explained the value of both Genesis 1 and Genesis 2&3 to yo0u many, many, many, ... many times.Genesis 1 is the basic scripture that defines the base that separates the Jews for all others; the "Sacred Week and Sabbath". The Sabbath is essential to the whole Judaic Faith and was so important that it carried over into both of the spin off religions; Islam and Christianity. It is a Just So story used to provide a divine justification for the practice.Genesis 2&3 are also Just So stories, much much older that the Genesis 1 Just So story, that explain basic facts of life; why childbirth for humans seemed so much harder than it did for all the other animals, why we fear snakes, why we have a moral compass and a knowledge of right and wrong, why we have to farm and work hard for a living instead of simply being hunter gatherers (this particular tale carries over into the Cane & Able fable) and in particular, why women must be subject to man.The God and the Serpent are simply plot devices in the stories and represent only themselves. This is show in the conclusions; that being human will not be easy, not always pleasant, often hard and painful yet far more like God than the dumb beasts.All of these had great value at the time long before the concept of a Bible or Canon. These were the creation of Judaism myths. They continue right though all of the Old Testament describing politics and social structure and aliances and disputes. It was those who came later that perverted them to create a formal dogma.

You really really have never read the Bible child. Take some time and actually read what is written.

Die or death in the Bible means exactly the same thing as die or death in Qur'an or Talmud or Torah or Book of the Dead or All Quiet on the Western Front.And I, unlike the Christian Cult of Ignorance understand that what is written in the Bible stories is what is actually written in the Bible Stories and not what is marketed by the Apologists and Snake Oil Medicine men or Carny Hucksters that make up so much of modern Christianity.Go actually read what is written and when you show that you are actually capable of reading what is written then maybe we can hold a discussion. Right now though Mene Mene Tekel Upharsin.

Have you or any Apologist ever presented evidence or even a reasoned argument to support the existence of any spirits?

If that were true then there would be some noticeable and testable behavior differences.But no one has EVER shown any evidence of such traits.

Been there, seen the silliness and contagion.There was absolutely no evidence of anything but a total failure to think or keep in touch with reality.

What exactly is the test to identify some spirit?LOLMMTU