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Author | Topic: Free will vs Omniscience | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jon Inactive Member
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We don't have another option to simply ignore reality(as defined by the Creator) and simply do what thou wilt. No one has ever considered that. Being able to do impossible things is not a necessary condition for the existence of free will. Edited by Jon, : No reason given.Love your enemies!
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Jon Inactive Member |
Jon writes: Are you sure? No one has ever considered that. I suppose you might have, but that's just you. Within a traditional understanding you clearly support the notion that free will exists.Love your enemies!
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Jon Inactive Member |
Sometimes a person looks at a situation and imagines how it will play out.
Sometimes the person is wrong. Sometimes they are right. On the occasion that they are right, do we regard the actors as having no free will? Do they have freewill only so long as absolutely no one could possibly look at the situation and imagine its outcome?Love your enemies!
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Jon Inactive Member |
Huh?
My questions were about a hypothetical observer. Your answer is all about you.Love your enemies!
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Jon Inactive Member |
Do you think that guessing correctly is the same as knowing ? No.
If someone wins the lottery does that mean that they knew in advance which numbers would come up ? No. "You will drop the ball". If you drop the ball I am right. If you don't I am wrong. It doesn't really matter how I arrived at my supposition, it is right or wrong based on how it accords with unfolding reality.Love your enemies!
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Jon Inactive Member |
In the same way that it doesn't matter if you rigged the lottery or just got lucky ? Rigging the lottery is not arriving at a supposition; it's creating a reality. I don't think anyone in the debate is considering whether a problem of free will exists because God creates the future as He would like it to be. Because obviously such a universe would lack free will and there would be no debate.
It isn't about being right on occasion. It's about being infallibly right. And guesses aren't infallibly right. The intensified version of being right on occasion is being right on all occasions, not being infallibly right. One's guesses may be right on all occasions even if their guesses are just guesses, and having been 100% correct in all past guesses does not necessitate the next guess being accurate. In other words, being a good guessereven a really good guesserdoes not make one incapable of error, even if one has thus far not erred.Love your enemies!
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Jon Inactive Member |
Which is why guessing right every time - if it really is guessing - is not a problem for free will either. Which was my point in Message 174.Love your enemies!
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Jon Inactive Member |
Even the subthread title says "knowing" - and guessing is not knowing. We can get there if you'd like. Or you could continue to fling insults and waste thread space going in circles. Take your pick.Love your enemies!
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Jon Inactive Member |
I cannot imagine any reason that would make humans "more attractive" than germs if both were my creations. Are you equally proud of all your accomplishments?Love your enemies!
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Jon Inactive Member |
Guessing and knowing are analogous in that both are mental states and nothing else.
Love your enemies!
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Jon Inactive Member |
Guessing and knowing (neither of which is purely a mental state) are different in ways directly relevant to the arguments of this thread. Nonsense. The knowledge folks had of the Sun going around the Earth didn't change the fact that the Earth goes around the Sun. Neither did anyone's guesses on the matter. The effect of both knowledge and guesses on reality is nonexistent. Edited by Jon, : No reason given.Love your enemies!
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Jon Inactive Member |
The OP asked how foreknowledge and freewill could coexist.
Discussing the potential deficiencies of the common pop-philosophy understanding of knowledge is not an act of ignorance or error, but spot on the topic and (seeing as no one has offered a fully agreeable solution) probably not a waste of time.Love your enemies!
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